National Muzzleloading Rifle Assoc

[akapennypincher]

What do you think!

Me think not. :td:

 

[FishDFly]

I find it easier to do my own thing, than be part of a group that only talks about doing things.

The NMLRA is the only Muzzleloading Group around, many groups that do muzzleloading do just fine without belonging to the NMLRA.

Being a NMLRA Member would be a great deal if someone lives close to Friendship. They have a range to shoot on, a place to hunt, a place to camp reasonably.

If you live a 1,000 or 2,000 mile away what does membership offer? A magazine that Barns & Nobel would not have on its shelves as it is repetitive, members orientated, boring, and more of a members news letter in a magazine format.

How many folks here belong to the NRA and go to the NRA Whittington Center in New Mexico on a regular basis????

Stop whining where Friendship is. It has to be some place to exist does it not????????????

pennypicher surfaces each year to slam the Phoenix shoot, how many folks know he was a NMLRA Field Rep. and wanted to be on the BOD and could not get the 25 signatures to run to be elected to the BOD?????

Why does he seek to know how many shooters are registered??????

He is not a member of the NMLRA and how many folks are shooting is none of his business is it??????

Why does he go to Traders Row each year?????

If a person is not a member of the NMLRA, why continue to find fault with an organization to which you are not a dues paying member??????

meanmike is doing a nice service to the NMLRA and folks should appreciate his efforts.

rde

 

[Snakebite]

:thumbsup:

 

[coloradoclyde]

If a person is not a member of the NMLRA, why continue to find fault with an organization to which you are not a dues paying member??????

Because it is a "National" organization, it's actions can affect us all....paying member or not. It's actions deserve scrutiny from ALL of us...

meanmike is doing a nice service to the NMLRA and folks should appreciate his efforts.

You make him sound like a "surrogate"....Only those with a vested interest should appreciate such....everyone else should be wary and informed enough to make their own decisions.

They are not the voice of muzzleloading...It is simply a nonprofit privately owned shooting range...
There is nothing wrong with that....But they do not deserve the magnanimous stature that is often attributed to them...

I suggest looking at their tax returns....

I'm not against anyone joining the NMLRA....as long as they know that their membership paying for a shooting range and a magazine...and have no illusions or delusions.

 

[FishDFly]

You make him sound like a "surrogate"....Only those with a vested interest should appreciate such....everyone else should be wary and informed enough to make their own decisions.


Have you sat down and visited with Mike for bit, I have.

"I suggest looking at their tax returns...."

Please share your insight into the NMLRA's tax returns, I would like to know what is the problem with them.

I have a rule, I do not spend my money and be miserable, I am not miserable being a member of the NMLRA or the TMLRA.

Time to go clean pistols.

 

[coloradoclyde]

There's nothing wrong with being happy... :thumbsup:

 

[FishDFly]

Yep, you are right, waiting on UPS and a new rifle today to arrive this afternoon.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Post a picture....We all love "eye candy" :thumbsup:

 

[FishDFly]

Yep, do not know how to post pictures, it is supposed to have P++ Wood, have wanted one for years..

Even the wife when she saw one years ago said, I like that.

I am a pistol person, but this rifle I do like.

 

[akapennypincher]

Why does he go to Traders Row each year?????

Simple answer to look at the items on display in the repurposed shipping container they use as gun makers hall. Remember when Gunmaker Hall was in one of the building at Ben Avery, it was a larger display. But like most of the NMLRA thing it shrunk.

Never ever had any desire to be on a BOD, that is pure bull someone surved you Richard.

BTW I also go out each year to the Winter Range & Ben Avery Expo.

Plus go to Ben Avery frequently just to shoot. Me like 100,000 outher who see the value in having such a wonderful facility close to home to shoot at.

FYI

 

[coloradoclyde]

Simple answer to look at the items on display in the repurposed shipping container they use as gun makers hall. Remember when Gunmaker Hall was in one of the building at Ben Avery, it was a larger display.

Why is it no longer in the building?.....what is in the building?

 

[akapennypincher]

Simple answer to look at the items on display in the repurposed shipping container they use as gun makers hall. Remember when Gunmaker Hall was in one of the building at Ben Avery, it was a larger display.

Why is it no longer in the building?.....what is in the building?

Their was a cost involved in the daily building rental, I believe someone bought & fixed up the container to use ever year. Where it is stored I do not know.

The positive of the building was there were 3 times as many guns on display & for sale by small local builders who could not justify the cost of a Traders Row sport.

The building was used for all sort of venues like hunters education, CCW instruction, youth classes, meeting, etc.

Now the space has been converted to a new Ben Avery store where t-shirt, hats, targets, and range fees are collected.

But because Ben Avery is always changing a new bigger multi-purpose build now is use for air gun shoot, hunters education, gun shows etc. But way too big to be the old gunmakers hall.

 

[bob308]

I was a member back in the 80's donated money when they needed it even donated enough one time to get the cline book. then they took a swing every thing was flintlock. even to the point of snide remarks about people who shot cap locks. there were no stories about the target rifles that made the club. some shoots by local nmra clubs I went to I was not allowed to shoot my under hammer.

after that I left.

 

[coloradoclyde]

there were no stories about the target rifles that made the club.

Can you enlighten us about these stories?....and how "Target rifles made the club".....I'm curious....

My local club embraced underhamers....Maybe your experience was "local" .....and had nothing to do with the NMLRA....

 

[meanmike8665]

CC, Walter Cline's book THE MUZZLE LOADING RIFLE...THEN & NOW is a great history of the start of the NMLRA.

Michael

 

[meanmike8665]

I came to the sport in 1989, there where a lot of " buckskinners" around who thought target rifles and under hammers were a way of cheating. I think there is a very real problem of understanding modern muzzle loading. Early muzzleloading, 1933, was target shooting. Buckskinners brought a lot of life to muzzleloading, I think in the long run it hurt so to, the NMLRA saw the interest of buckskinning and moved in the rendezvous business and it caused a lot of trouble we still here about today. I own two undehammers and one sidehammer, I like them! I am also sorry you were treated badly by someone so narrow minded.
Michael

Michael

 

[FishDFly]

Shooters Row, did see some positive's this year even though the number of vendor's was down.

Several folks had shooting supplies for those who needed them. It was close versus where it was in the past, far off. Handle Bar Hank's has nice food versus cold sandwiches I take. Went during the wind, seems the number of folks shoping was up.

Number of items on the auction was down, left with what I wanted.

Ben Avery is a world class facility.

NMLRA beats what is in 2nd place.

 

[akapennypincher]

Well Richard I am not sure if you are a total optimist, or were wearing your NMLRA Standard Issued Rosey Colored Shooting Glasses. But the WNS no matter what you call it has been slowing declining in registered shooter, spectators, and last traders over the last 15 years.

I do not call those number positive growth, I call that going in reverse of what was and what could be.

BTW we have this West Coast Hamburger Chain called "In n Out" and there is one on the Eastside of I-17 that has world class hamburgers. so check it out if you ever happen to be out in PHX again.

Trying to decide who has the better facilities Ben Avery V/s Friendship is like trying to decide who is thre better dressage rider. It is subjective, and up to the person with the judges hat.

Unlike trying to see who can high jump the highest, it is not subjective, but something you can measure to see who can jump the highest.

Enjoy the Snow & Ice in Indiana, as it was for me a turn off after living in that state 1 year in the 60's. My fondest memory of thing I like in Indiana was going to High School Basketball Games & Port Tenderloin Sandwiches. Other then that Indiana was just another stopping off point in my life of living & experences many places I would live in again before considering Anderson Indiana again.

 

[In Over My Head]

Being in over my head in this muzzleloading culture, a veritable greenhorn, there are no miraculous revelations in my comments. But comment I must because the culture and the NMLRA are important to me.

For perspective: I am a Life/Endowment/Benefactor member of the NRA. Why? Most every competition I enjoy with suppository guns can be done best under the auspices of the CMP. In fact, the NRA is more often an antagonist of its competitors than a booster. But the NRA is the absolute most important and effective champion of the second amendment and the best promoter of the gun-owner's way of life, period. I support that.

I am a Golden Guardian member of the NMLRA and paying my way to be One of One Thousand. Why? I've never fired a single shot of muzzleloading competition in my life! It is because the NMLRA is the most important entity attempting to preserve the very historic and cultural roots of our gun-owning way of life.

Could the NMLRA do a better job? Probably. Most human endeavors are subject to improvement. As a newcomer I appreciate hearing the criticisms posted above because we have to know the sticking points and work to get past them. I am particularly impressed that some of the posters started out expressing mostly animosity but stayed in the conversation and made important observations. Thank you for your contribution!

Now one point of contention is whether it is the NMLRA or some of its outstanding members that are actually doing the promoting and preserving. It's a bit of a 'chicken or the egg' conundrum. But in light of the many excellent volunteers who are choosing to do their good work under the banner of the NMLRA I think it is fair to give credit to the NMLRA. It provides the continuity and nexus to the many personal contributions.

I think it is essential to the preservation of our second amendment rights to have a national level organization that can promote the historical depth, the wealth of traditions and skills and artistry of firearms without the off-putting distractions of Modern Sporting Rifles, concealed carry, and etc.

To some extent our modern society recognizes that it has become a hectic, disposable, short-sighted, plastic culture. The NMLRA represents alternatives to that on many levels - all of them ultimately leading back to firearms, our fight for freedom, etc. It is a critical component of our fight to preserve our rights and culture that we have the muzzleloading culture available as an alternative voice. It can satisfy the need to be creative - mechanically and artistically. It can satisfy the need to understand our place in history and provide a connection to the American saga. It is a crucial bypass on the road to keeping our second amendment rights understandable to the broad public.

In that light, every competitor - or casual shooter, every reenactor, is an ambassador to the public. You can't avoid that when you're making noise, smoke and fire and dressing funny! It draws observers and holds them with the novelty. It creates a new avenue to attempt to acquaint the public with the firearms culture in an, intriguing, non-threatening manner.

In my eyes, the NMLRA is the most important force in this second front of the battle to preserve our rights and culture. And that - in and of itself - is plenty of reason to pay $35 per year, even if you get nothing else at all!

But it's not really the reason any of us join in the first place, so it is fair to question how well the association is serving the individual interests of its membership.

It can't be all about Friendship, but Friendship is not unimportant. Yes, it is not convenient to all of the membership, but it is relatively near to a large part of our population and especially to the areas where our culture evolved. And, as someone pointed out above, it has to be somewhere! NMLRA would really be adrift in the wind without the nexus of Friendship.

But is Friendship the best focus of the organization's mission? No. It is home, but it is not the mission. The mission is everywhere else, wherever the muzzleloading sport and culture can be put before new prospects, new audiences. Making our competitions and other activities accessible and inviting to as many likely prospects as possible is what is crucial.

Local clubs are crucial. Understandable rules and competitions are crucial. Safe, well-run activities are crucial. Recognizing, supporting and encouraging those who show an interest is crucial. This is what must be emphasized and where our time and funds must be focused.

And then, coming all the way back to page one, post one, there is that issue...

The [expletive deleted] are a very valid pool of prospects. The fact that they show up at competitions puts them miles ahead of other prospects. Yes, their current firearm of choice (or chance?) was designed as a cheap and dumbed-down way of exploiting primitive hunting seasons, but they have shown up to compete!

Throughout the shooting sports universe there is a continuum of involvement. The low end of this continuum is the road sign shooters followed by the tacticool idiots who just want to see how fast they can unload their high capacity magazines. A little higher up is the class of hunters who have very little interest in the tool they use. Moving on you get the shooters - hunters or not - who are enthusiasts at some level. Those willing to put in the effort to show up at competitions are already way up towards the other end of the continuum! The fact that they have shown up with the lowest common denominator firearm should not condemn them, it may be the only even vaguely appropriate firearm they have or can afford at this time. But it has brought them to us so we can infect them with our enthusiasm for the traditional firearms we love. Hallelujah!

Don't chase these prospects away, you've already got them all the way to showing up at competitions! Have faith! Show them your flintlock and encourage them to try it out! They will want one! And they will want to shoot it in competition because they are already doing that! Do you see any more likely prospects?

 

[Rifleman1776]

Early muzzleloading, 1933, was target shooting. Buckskinners brought a lot of life to muzzleloading, I think in the long run it hurt so to, the NMLRA saw the interest of buckskinning and moved in the rendezvous business and it caused a lot of trouble

A lot of history, sans details, crammed into that statement.
I'll wager most, if not all, the rifles used in those early days of NMLRA were caplocks.
The 'primitive' or buckskinners were, and still are, a different breed than those on the line. Unfortunately, NMLRA did not handle the primitive discipline well and many ill feelings resulted. Some rendezvous even split from NMLRA and formed their own organizations. e.g. the SouthEastern.
I feel a rant coming. :shocked2: Will stop here.