Escopeta, anyone?

[BillinOregon]

For some odd reason, Spanish firearms seem to get short shrift from many of us in the muzzleloading community, although they were the first to appear in North America, played an important role in the exploration of much of what is now the USA, and even figured in our Revolution.
About the only source for escopeta parts that I am aware of is The Rifle Shoppe.
Just wondering if anyone has built or owned an escopeta, and what you thought if its handling qualities.

 

[tenngun]

I think it's the fact that so much of North American early history was British French Dutch and Swedish, we got some Spanish muskets during the AWI, but they were basic military muskets that until one looked close looked like all other muskets.
Italian and Russian style also get ignored.
We can get caught up in style, after all blundebusses get more attention then the deserve or Scottish highland pistols too because they look sexy. However Spanish American history hasn't caught on. We might ohh and agh in st agustine ant C. San Marcos, but we start Florida history with the semonole war, or Texas with Austin families, California with the gold rush.

 

[Alden]

I have one, a nice all-custom Spanish flintlock in oak, to be sure, and an example of its daddy matchlock. They do feel a little different as there is little "wrist" to speak of and the stocks, rather, drop to a point where they may be of some use when shouldered.

 

[BrownBear]

I think it's the fact that so much of North American early history was British French Dutch and Swedish, we got some Spanish muskets during the AWI, but they were basic military muskets that until one looked close looked like all other muskets.

You might change that to "Eastern" North American History. The horrible heck of it is, the Spanish predate the English colonies quite a bit in the Southwest. Heck, settlers were trapping around Taos (established in 1615) before the American Revolution, and before the Missouri was so much as a gleam in L&C's eyes. It was only after fur traders from the east stumbled into the Southwest that the rest of the country took any notice of the area. That region and its history always has had pretty short shrift in US history books.... And in muzzleloading circles.

 

[Brokennock]

hotoSmile:

 

[tenngun]

That's a trueism. We forget 200 years of history in Spanish America. Much of the things that gets our attention from a ML or HC impression was limited or absent in Spanish America. Fur trapping/trading never got a big boost in Spanish America. Even when the Spanish controlled Louisiana most of the fur flowed from French fur traders.
The Commancheros out of New Mexico came close to what British/French/Dutch/Americans were doing on the frontier, but we recall the name because it was out of the ordinary.
The Spanish method of settlement was slow when dealing with the 'wild' frontier. It did great moving in to areas where there were already communities of people living in cities. Moving in to Texas or much of Florida their settlement style was more plodding and less flashy, and tended to be less class mobile.
We are drawn to the flashy. We want to be Boone, not an indentured servent. If we think Spanish in any way we would think Vacqurio in velvet and silver, not peon farmer in white cotton.

 

[BrownBear]

And escopetas rather than Hawkens.

 

[Wes/Tex]

hotoSmile:

The term usually is considered to be the Spanish version of 'carbine' and most had the typical stock style and miguelet lock associated with 18th adn early 19th century Spanish firearms.
http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/adp/resources/images/escopeta.gif
https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/disp/1cfce817672605.562bd19a8a20f.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/18/36/84/1836847984472c14b97ad62e19a277e7.jpg


Soldado de Cuera (Leather Coated Soldier)...typical presidial 'dragoon' with typical lance, shield and escopeta. In many cases, even the horse had padded leather protection.
http://www.militarymuseum.org/Resources/Soldaldo de Curea.jpg

 

[Brokennock]

Thanks.

 

[curator]

The term "escopeta" is used for most smooth-bore carbine or muskets in Spanish-speaking countries. Spanish colonial militias used miquelet escopetas here in Florida during the 17th and 18th centuries. No replica gunmakers currently make miquelet escopetas, but Pedersoli does make a replica of the 1757 Spanish musket which is technically an escopeta. Here is a pic of the miquelet escopeta I made from Rifle Shoppe parts.

 

[BrownBear]

Inspired project and excellent work! :hatsoff:

 

[BillinOregon]

Very nice, Curator. Thanks for sharing the image.

 

[smoothshooter]

I suspect a lot of it has to do with very few Anglos having any interest in ANYTHING Spanish - culture, firearms, history, etc.

 

[smoothshooter]

A lot of us are put off by the great big hammer, and all the guts of the lock on the outside. And that big ring on top of the hammer.

But I will have to admit that sometimes recently I have been tempted to try one myself if I could get a good one.

 

[nkbj]

There's a delightful quality to them... sort of like they belong in an illustration on the cover of a fantasy fiction novel.

 

[Artificer]

That big ring on top of the Cock Jaw Screw (Top Jaw Screw) actually was an advanced design. No need for a Turnscrew or other appendage to tighten/loosen it. You could also shove a stick, ramrod or rammer in it to use as a T handle. Ugly as far as esthetics, perhaps, but not a bad idea at all for a military gun of that period.

Gus

 

[Wes/Tex]

Yeah Gus, no kidding. I know of only one source for an Escopeta in the U.S. and that was Narragansett Armes, formerly in Indianapolis. They made quite an unusual lot of pieces, including the escopeta, club butt fowlers adn even a run of Ferguson twist-breach rifles.

 

[Gustavo Hoefs]

This has become an area of interest to me as well. I have devoted a small initial effort to finding some examples. I am not sure of the exact name of the Florida dept of Archeology in Tallahassee they have pieces and parts recovered from the area but I am unsure of what where and condition. The only example of a spanish gun I found in saint Augustine is a repop at the fountain of youth, which I have not seen. I aquired a catalog of the Herman P. Dean firearms collection housed @ the Huntington Museum of Art in WV . There are some Spanish pistols but the catalog is at another location ATM so I can't say for certain if there are any muskets in the it.

 

[Hermanoshawken]

Hi. I am Spanish and I thank who have studied this issue: The weapons of Spanish colonial America. "Escopeta" is the same as "shotgun"(or "fowler"). The Miquelet Lock (llave de patilla) is a strong and reliable Flint-lock. The Spanish musket, Model 1757, played an important role in the American War of Independence against the British, although not as much as the Brown Bess or French Charleville. There are two important books on the subject of Spanish guns. "Guns on the Early Frontiers" by Carl P. Russell and "Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America 1700-1821" by Sidney B. Brinckerhoff & Pierce A. Chamberlain. Thank you very much for your interest in this topic.

 

[tenngun]

We say it today with reference to a type of gun. There is no logic to it, but we share an idea. Look up 'fusil de chase' and you will find new French shot guns. Jager, can be a jager or it can be a fine bolt action modern rife. Even 'musket' the two man gun of 1600, the big brown bess,or a WTBS springfield. :idunno: