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Hudson's Bay Camp Knives

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Hi fellas and folks,
I am a long time student of the North American blades tradition, but somehow I missed a knife...

Thank you for the good photos of originals and comments



This hbc unit and following exmple with Metis infuenced handle, has a critical role in the early development of the allamerican knife.

Amazing as I now see it is directly related the imported sheffield.

Everything that was old, is new again.




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157580-Buffalo-Knife.jpg
The top two look very much like Carrigan coffin handled Bowies. Third one a modified version.
 
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bob...im jumping in here with this gun i thought you might like to see ...dont know who made it as rawhide repair covers up clear to the sight...bag and rifle i got from great great great grandson of governor of santa clara pueblo in new mexico....family tradition is aquired during pueblo up rising when gov. bent was killed and turlys mill was overrun...inside is small horn and little bag to go on belt...indian kids could care less and wanted a lift kit and big tires for his pickup....its 50 cal and has something in the barrel i cant get out...
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Thanks for showing that rifle and its accoutrements, Fred. Incredible…

More knowledgeable folks than I might be able to comment on the rifle. To me, it looks like a Lancaster-type trade rifle that has seen some hard knocks, as well as some al fresco repairs and embellishments by a succession of native owners. I can’t tell from the photos… is the buttplate still on it? Maybe still present but with the toe of the buttplate bent under?

The Taos Revolt was in January, 1847. Flintlocks were still pretty common in the west then, but percussion firearms were gaining in prevalence. I suspect that rifle had seen some use prior to that event, and I wouldn’t be surprised to find that its native owner(s) kept it hidden, possibly for generations, for fear of confiscation. I understand that many Lakota and Cheyenne families kept firearms hidden that way after the wars of the 1860’s and 1870’s, and these guns were not brought out until the late 20th century. My point being that may be why the old rifle and its accessories are as complete as the are.

The pouch and horn are equally remarkable. I’ll have to say I have never seen a horn spout quite like that one, though! There are some comparable pouch and horn outfits from Taos, San Ildefonso, and maybe Santa Clara in the anthropological collections of the American Museum of Natural History (AMNH). I don’t know if any of them are linked to the Taos Revolt, though. I can send you some photos of these, or link you up to their searchable database.

That pouch appears to have the shoulder strap simply tied on the pouch with thongs, in typical native style.

Fur trade enthusiasts on this board should take a deep interest in this rifle and outfit. The mountain men of that time were outraged over the murder of Charles Bent, and took immediate and well-coordinated action. There is an eyewitness account in Lewis Garrard’s Wah-to-Yah and the Taos Trail.

Fred, thanks so much for sharing this with us!

Notchy Bob
 
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bob...bag that is pure indian...thought youd like to see it...gun and bag off of wind river reservation in wyo...gun is parker field and hudson bay marked with fox and tombstone....cut down northwest trade gun.....fredView attachment 216541 View attachment 216543
Thank you for posting this, @fred fellows . I'm a big fan of Northwest guns... I have two very good reproductions. Yours is a classic! It looks to be in very good condition, too.

The pouch is also very interesting. I don't think I've seen one with the red wool fringe like that before.

That is an extraordinary collection.

Thanks for showing it!

Notchy Bob
 
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Years ago I had the opportunity to travel through James Bay and Hudson Bay and met quite a few Cree Indians with knives very similar if not identical to some of the knives shown in this thread. Spectacular country that can be overwhelming.
 
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