Indian made muskets

[Chuck Thom]

If you are looking form a matchlock..I would highly recommend a John Buck matchlock I bought one a few years ago and its my favorite smoothbore.. even got a deer with it...chuck thom pat hemken also makes an inexpensive matchlock I have 3 of his long guns and 1 pistol

 

[old ugly]

has any one seen one blow up ? or have seen one after it has blown up ? just curious as i remember this sort of discusion about cva and pedersoli way back in the 80s .

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

American made barrels are made to a very high standard out of materials that are of a known quality.

Indian made barrels are made out of Lord knows what type of metal by what technique to no particular standard.

We've had this discussion before and those of us who are blessed with a lack of ownership of an Indian made gun always prefer that we remain in that state forevermore. Those who find themselves in possession of these creations espouse their great love for them and their great faith in them. I think this is a gulf far too wide to ever be bridged. :v

 

[kevindj]

I guess I have weighed in on MVTC on other posts. It depends entirely on the intended use and your budget. I have 6 different MVTC flinters from a dog lock to a Charleville. They are chunky and some are beter made than others. I have had no problems with any of them, but.... They are respectable shooters if I stay under 80gr., use undersized ball - thick patch.

If you intend to hunt or target shoot and/or push the loads I would examine the gun carefully. If you are not satisfied I believe they stand behind what they sell.

Myself, I carry them a lot and shoot them a little, For competition I use mostly guns I assembled myself. For demonstration - I have no fear of them performing reasonably well.

Good luck.

 

[Mulebrain]

If you like pipe bombs, and potentially deadly explosions right next to your face Go for it!

I wouldn't trust that manure for a second!

You wanna keep shooting, or die trying?

 

[bingo1952]

Faith and a dollar will buy you a cheap cup of coffee.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

has any one seen one blow up ? or have seen one after it has blown up ? just curious as i remember this sort of discusion about cva and pedersoli way back in the 80s .

On August 14th, in the tiny town of Pubert, Maine, Clem "Booger" Schnott had an Indian made musket explode while he was demonstrating the loading and firing technique for a Rev War musket. The last thing he could recall passing through his mind was the breech plug and tang bolt. Witnesses reported that after he regained his feet, Clem admonished them "to not try this at home". Clem was later quoted as saying "It could have been much worse. I dryballed 'er that time. Imagine what coulda happened if there'd a been powder in there too!"

Despite this minor incident, Clem remains a staunch believer in the high quality and safety of the India made guns. "When you figger that they're banged out by some poor bugger sittin' neck deep in mud and cow dung, usin' just a rusty ball peen hammer and a blunt axe, the fit and finish are pretty good, or at least O.K. Once I completely rebuild and refinish 'em, you can tell they're supposed to be a gun--if you squint up yer eyes and the light's just right. The fact that they sometimes explode just adds to the thrill of ownership--however brief!"
:stir:

 

[Shine]

Just where exactly is pubert maine?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

West of the eastern portion of the state--but not so far west as to be in New Hampshire. It's in the forest, but you can't see it because of the trees. :hatsoff:

 

[kevindj]

Gonna go out on a limb. Indian muskets - what I hear from the choir (looking over multiple posts and categories) is that they are junk and blow up, BUT if you personally rebuild them they are fine. But wait a minute - are you rebuilding the barrel? If they blow up, it's the barrel that blows, right?

Here is a challenge - Only respond if you PERSONALY have had a MVTC or another Indian gun explode in your hands or in your presence.

I am dead serious. I want to hear it from the horses mouth - then I will believe. If I hear it third hand, it just might be the other end of the horse talking.

I let my son shoot mine, if there is reputable proof they are inherently dangerous - I want to know the specifics. As a former gun shop owner, firearms instructor and competitor, I have heard many stories of 'pipe bomb' guns over my 45+ years of shooting and in most cases it was 'shooters error'.

I am not trying to be difficult, there just comes a time when we prove something to be right or wrong and then move on.

 

[preston cook]

100% american from the walnut to the rice bbl see the difference

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

About 36 miles north--if you blink you'll miss it...

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Kevin, the reason some of us are goofing around with this topic is that we've done it to death a few times already. But you do deserve the straightest answer that we can give you. There is photographic evidence of one India made gun that blew up, supposedly after being fired with only blanks. From the photos, it appears that there was some sort of bore obstruction as the barrel seems to have split along a seam. It may have been a hammer-forged barrel or possibly tubing of some kind. It is impossible to tell from the pictures. It was a catastrophic failure of the sort you might see if the wrong powder was used. I believe the photos are here on the forum, but I don't know how to access them--someone else will probably step up with that information. I hope this is of some help to you.

 

[Shine]

In all seriousness Russ is right. I have been in the part of the world where some of these guns are made :shocked2: . Save your sheckles and buy american.

 

[kevindj]

Thank you for an upright answer. Every gun shop I have ever been in has a sample of a gun failure of some sort! All this banter from one picture?

I buy American whenever possible. Is there a maker who turns out Bess's, Charlevilles, Bakers, etc that are under $1,000. I have not found one. I can't afford to spend over $2,000 on a custon gun.(outfitting for two people.) For those of us wanting to enjoy partaking in recreating history and reenacting, the India guns meet most budgets.

I agree - American is the way to go. But let us also remember that most steel is made in China and imported to the US, most likely to India too!

Kevin

 

[Shine]

Don't bet on it

 

[Grenadier1758]

Quote from Rusty Frizzen

There is photographic evidence of one India made gun that blew up, supposedly after being fired with only blanks. From the photos, it appears that there was some sort of bore obstruction as the barrel seems to have split along a seam. It may have been a hammer-forged barrel or possibly tubing of some kind. It is impossible to tell from the pictures. It was a catastrophic failure of the sort you might see if the wrong powder was used. I believe the photos are here on the forum, but I don't know how to access them--someone else will probably step up with that information. I hope this is of some help to you.

The metalurgy report and analysis should also be available. The metalurgy analysis of the barrel did not indicate any failure of the metal other than the barrel bursting due to an obstruction. The photos show a definate bulge at the front of the split. There is no barrel, American, British, Italian, Spanish, or Indian that can take the pressure spike of an obstruction about 2 feet from the breech without some sort of adverse reaction.

I found the Forum topic with the reference to the lab report and analysis.

Link to Report on the Burst Musket

Now how the obstruction occurred in that barrel when only blanks were fired has never been explained.

 

[kevindj]

Thank you for the reference to the article. I cannot defend any Indian made gun as being equal to the quality of most American makers, although I have seen some real junk being passed of as custom (more like home cobbled).

My quest for a quality American made Bess or Charleville is genuine, if I can find one I will likely purchase it. Maybe two!

 

[Mike Brooks]

You just missed two American made bess's here.
BESS

 

[tg]

"Have you ever looked at these guns? W/ an open mind?"

Yes and after seeing them it closed!

If you like them buy them, but don't try to build them up past what they are which is not much, at least according to any experienced ML builder I have talked to, I would expect them to have a pretty good idea on the subject.