Indian Made Muskets ?

[FlinterNick]

For those who (like me) are not able to spend a couple of thousand the Indian guns are a viable option.
I got mine second hand, from a member here.
No - it is not as nice as a $2,000 gun.
A Corolla is not as nice as a Cadillac, which is not as nice as a Mercedes, which is not as nice as a Ferrari.
You don't drive a Corolla like you would a Ferrari.
Common sense dictates that if you buy a cheaper alternative that you would not try and load it like a cannon.
I have put hundreds of rounds through my MSV Bess. It works great, it is reliable and for a smoothbore it is accurate with a patched round ball.
It really likes 75gr of 2F and a .735 patched ball.
When a person loads 100 grains (or more) in a Bess and then complains that it failed? Offer that person a Darwin.
Use common sense.
If the less expensive alternatives were not available many of us would not own anything at all.
Again, use common sense. If you abuse your Ferrari it too will eventually fail.

I personally would never put more than 80 of 2F in my own guns 90 is the max.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
You guys do know that the standard charge for a 18th century Brown Bess musket cartridge was 165 grains of powder that was equivalent to modern 2F. The cartridge contained enough powder for priming but that meant the charge in the barrel was probably over 120-130 grains. If the quality of your barrel makes you nervous to use more than 100 grains then you are implying that your repro musket would not pass ordnance inspection. Actually, none of the India-made or Pedersoli-made repros would pass 18th century British ordnance inspection but probably not for the safety of the barrels.

dave

 

[Griz44Mag]

Hi,
You guys do know that the standard charge for a 18th century Brown Bess musket cartridge was 165 grains of powder that was equivalent to modern 2F. The cartridge contained enough powder for priming but that meant the charge in the barrel was probably over 120-130 grains. If the quality of your barrel makes you nervous to use more than 100 grains then you are implying that your repro musket would not pass ordnance inspection. Actually, none of the India-made or Pedersoli-made repros would pass 18th century British ordnance inspection but probably not for the safety of the barrels.

dave

You assume an incorrect interpretation of my statement.
The fact that I charge at 75gr is due to nothing more than the fact that when I did a load workup with .735 ball and .010 patch it hit the sweet spot for accuracy.
It has nothing to do with the safety of the barrel. It has everything to do with an accurate load.
I don't hunt with it, nor do I have a need to load a larger charge.
A patched round ball is a lot tighter and therefore produces higher pressures than the military standard charge with a loose ball with a little paper on it in the bore where a lot of the energy was wasted with blow by around that loose ball. And yes, I have watched the slow motion video of a standard Bess with a standard military charge.
What I see is fire and smoke exiting the barrel ahead of the expulsion of the ball.
That is why such a huge charge was used, to take up the slack of a smaller loose ball all for the sake of being able to reload without wiping.
I have no need to be in that big of a hurry for the round. Paper and steel targets where nobody is shooting back at me.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Also, at one point I did try out the standard military load.
What I found was that in addition to the lack of accuracy the impact on target was several inches lower than that of a much lighter charge with a tight fitting patched ball.

 

[FlinterNick]

I’ve used up to 150 on all of my smoothbores, but worked the load down to what gave me the best grouping, which is continently around 70-80 grains, 90 in the pedersoli.

At 100, my grouping is ok but not great, at 120-150 my groupings are terrible.

I’m also taking shots at around 25-50 yards, I think 120 grains is too much for that kind of range.

As far as keeping the load down for the safety of the barrel, yes this is true to an extent, I’m not concerned about the gun exploding but I’m concerned about damaging the stock due to excessive recoil And I also am mindful about the guys next to me at the range.

Isn’t there also the theory that ordinance standards for military purposes wouldn’t be the same for civilian Use ?

 

[FlinterNick]

Hi,
You guys do know that the standard charge for a 18th century Brown Bess musket cartridge was 165 grains of powder that was equivalent to modern 2F. The cartridge contained enough powder for priming but that meant the charge in the barrel was probably over 120-130 grains. If the quality of your barrel makes you nervous to use more than 100 grains then you are implying that your repro musket would not pass ordnance inspection. Actually, none of the India-made or Pedersoli-made repros would pass 18th century British ordnance inspection but probably not for the safety of the barrels.

dave

I think its a safety issue when you continently fire off 120-150 grain blank rounds without cleaning your guns And then repeat the process the next time you’re in the field.

I Think its ironic that 3-4 Indian made guns have exploded due to high loads and suspected obstructions in the bore And one fact remains in that reinactor s don’t clean their guns.

I’ve passed up a lot of used Pedersoli’s and Miroku’s simply because they looked like they came up from the Titanic.

 

[nightwolf1974]

I personally would never put more than 80 of 2F in my own guns 90 is the max.

Unless it' a T/C like Renegade, Hawken, New Englander, ect. I shoot my hunting T/Cs at 100grains of 2f, I used to go 120 grns. in the cut down 18" ,54cal. Renegade with a Maxi ball......when I was younger and just staring out in BP.

 

[toot]

Its not just many years ago, but even recently. I would take it upon myself to be the inspector of the muskets for firing. You can drop a steel ram rod, small end down a barrel and it will "ping" as the thin end of the rod hits the breech plug. I would demonstrate that I would put a cleaning jag on my ram rod with a wet patch and the weight of the rod would push the jag to the breech. Virtually none of the other muskets would move at all. Not until the rod with a jag could easily slide down the barrel would I pass the musket as ready for use. We had several members who had very clean muskets on the outside, but the bores were never touched until I did my inspection. There were a lot of grumbles to be sure, but all I had to do was pull out the pictures of the blown up musket and attitudes would change.

that is great. you are really safety conscious.

 

[FlinterNick]

Unless it' a T/C like Renegade, Hawken, New Englander, ect. I shoot my hunting T/Cs at 100grains of 2f, I used to go 120 grns. in the cut down 18" ,54cal. Renegade with a Maxi ball......when I was younger and just staring out in BP.

i go up to 110 in my .54 rifles

 

[nightwolf1974]

i go up to 110 in my .54 rifles

You learn more as you get older and spend more time doing things. I'm NOT recoil sensitive, just a little smarter.