Indian made muskets

[Russ T Frizzen]

If you like pipe bombs, and potentially deadly explosions right next to your face Go for it!

I wouldn't trust that manure for a second!

You wanna keep shooting, or die trying?

That's ridiculous. And people wonder why our hobby is growing old and is getting no new blood You can blather on about this, but I have held these guns. I have held a breech plug out of one. Sure, American-made would be nice. Sorry, I'm not RICH and don't intend to run up a credit card to buy something like this. Kinda like all the American car makers goin' under because of workers who make $70. an hour... okay, maybe not. Most custom gun makers have to charge a lot because it costs a lot to live now. Most folks cannot afford even $800. for a musket. I am sorry, but that is crazy money!

To say that guns made somewhere like India are bad because they're made there? Okay, American cars are junk. Perhaps we should all have to buy Honda's, Volvos or a Mercedes Benz as they are quality-made and not likely to kill the driver in a wreck.

Have you ever looked at these guns? W/ an open mind? Sure, some of them need modifications to reenact. Mine did and it was from evyil Japan. I paid $2oo. for my Bess, had it authentically updated and it's great. Buy a nice Indian gun (there ARE different makers too) and pay someone to tweak it and you're waaaaaay ahead of the game. Or just stay at home and watch American Idol, smug in your superiority... :2

The price for a Long Land pattern Bess from MVTC is $595.00 plus 40.00 shipping or $635.00 total. This is not cheap. That is $165.00 below the $800.00 that you feel is "crazy money". By the time you pay someone to "tweak" your India built gun-no doubt incurring more shipping charges--you will have reached the "crazy money" level that you yourself determined. And you will still have an overweight, teak stocked, non correct gun with a very low resale value. A much better solution would be to by a used Bess that doesn't require rebuilding to make it look like a Bess.

I don't know where Evyil, Japan is, but since this is about India made guns that is irrelevant anyway. The Japanese guns are, for the most part, of good quality.

To suggest that someone buy a "nice Indian gun and pay someone to tweak it" indicates that the nice Indian guns ain't so nice after all. Because if they were they wouldn't need to be tweaked--would they?

American Idol--is this a show about up and coming young gun builders? Flint or percussion era? Do they use simple hand tools or are power tools allowed? Please inform us as to date and network that this remarkable show is on. Thanks in advance. :v

 

[surrealpillow]

what about just getting the musket "proofed" before use? Who exactly would one go to to have a musket proofed? a gunsmith?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I suppose, for an additional fee, the smith who "tweaked" the gun could be persuaded to proof it. I, should I ever find myself in the unlikely position of owning one of these things, would proof it myself before wasting any more time or money on trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

[TxRambler]

I bought a Loyalist 3rd model Bess about three years ago for reenacting and some fun at the range. No complaints, have had lots of fun with it. Most reenactors here that shoot the Bess use Loyalist or Middlesex. Not having held a genuine Bess or compared mine to a museum piece I have no idea how closely it compares to the original articles. Were I buying one today, after reading the reports here, I would try and comparitave shop, and give an edge to the American one (I had no idea that there were American Besses three years ago), and would pay a little more to keep the jobs at home, but not twice as much, or even 50% more. Would that get me a decent American made Bess? Mine now lists for $672. If I were willing to pay, say, 25% more for a US made one, or $840, could I find one? As to safety, the only documented incident that I have seen involving Indian muzzleloaders is the one already referenced, and the analysis seemed to clear the gun manufacturing quality.

If an Indian or Italian Bess is what you can afford, get one and have fun with it. If you want American and can afford one, go for it.

My two cents.

 

[kevindj]

I have not found one yet for $800. Tell me where to buy one and I will consider it.

I think we are missing the point, we need more people enjoying the sport and unless someone can prove beyond a doubt that they are all unsafe - buy 'em and shoot 'em, because I will. If you can afford to upgrade - great!

As an instructor, when I have a kid show up with an $89 CVA Bobcat, I don't critisize his gun - I praise his enthusiams for the sport. I help learn to shoot and to understand the limitations of his gun and eventually he may grow into something bigger and better.

It reminds me of the 'expert' reenactors who pick on the outfits and accoutrements of a newbie. There is a helluva difference between encouragement and critisism.

I have Middlesex guns, many of them, muskets and pistols, not because they are the best, but because I can have MORE than the next guy- 2 to 1. He who has the most toys, has the most fun!

The bottom line is when I go to reenact, I find it better to be carrying a period gun than wishing I could afford one!

 

[old ugly]

i just bought a pedersoli brown bess from loyalist arms ,got it last week . i wanted a decent shooter and fairly accurate copy (doesn,t have to be exact ). it is a good sturdy gun , nice fit and finish and as with the other pedersoli flinters i have owned it will see lots of shooting .
i have also bought from them one of their brands of a fussil de chasse . it should be here this week . i will let you know the fit and finish . they suggest that the gun is proof tested and before i shoulder the gun i will do that with a big charge and a fuse to set it off . we will see what happens .
i have had very good customer service from loyalist arms .

 

[cal.43]

In many europian country exist gunprooflaw since more than 200 Years and all guns made priour a fixed date has to be proofed for safety. In my garage rust such an indianpipebomb and this one has the full proof and with 300 grains blackpowder and 692 grains lead and it´s safe to use. I don´t trust any company guns has to been proofed for safety before used. If someone like to see collapsed guns go to a proofhouse they have mostly a nice exhibition.

 

[Roy]

I will say, that I don't like them. :haha: if they are, or aren't safe to shoot I don't know. Don't care to find out.

I am tired of the not a rich man arguement. Muzzleloaders are not cars, you do not need one to get to work everyday, they should not really be compared. I have seen several not rich men own several cheaper made guns, when you add them all up, they are still not worth what they have in them (as far as re-sell). And for the amount initially spent on all of them they could have had a few nice guns.

My only advice is go out and handle these guns and compare them to one another. :v

 

[Mike Brooks]

I have seen several not rich men own several cheaper made guns, when you add them all up, they are still not worth what they have in them (as far as re-sell). And for the amount initially spent on all of them they could have had a few nice guns.

DITTO!
I guess I'm spoiled and like nice stuff. I would be embarrassed to carry a gun that looked like it was inletted with a dull screw driver and had the profile of an Elmer Fudd cartoon gun.
Save your money, Buy an American made gun from a maker with a name and your gun will never go down in value but most likely increase. Buy a cheap Indian gun and your investment is cut by 1/3 as soon as you take ownership. Indian guns have no re sale value. I'd rather have one really nice gun that was correctly built than a dozen Elmer Fudd guns.
I remember back in the early 80's I could go to gun shows and on a regular basis see an original second model Bess for sale for around $900. I used to shoot an original 3rd model bess. The fit and finish was excellent. The inletting was as tight as any custom gun. I paid a whopping $240 for that gun....
I encourage everyone to go to museums and high end gun shows and look at original Bess's and Charlevilles, you'll see what a poor joke these Indian guns actually are.

 

[hawk]

I think Roy makes a good point here.

and it goes for all production versus hand built if you want a good soild gun that will retain (or appreciate) is's value ,than it's would be in your best interest(and you kids) to buy one from a builder new/used.

usually when buying something that is CLOSE to what you want on the CHEAP ,you are only left wanting a better one later .

just my take on it .

 

[tg]

"It reminds me of the 'expert' reenactors who pick on the outfits and accoutrements of a newbie."

On how many occasions and where have you seen this occur, it sounds like all the PC Nazi reports which are baseless.

", I find it better to be carrying a period gun than wishing I could afford one!"

And that period gun you are carrying is one of the Indian made guns? I'll assume you are not a newbee so this will not be included in the first quote

 

[tg]

"and it goes for all production versus hand built if you want a good soild gun that will retain (or appreciate) is's value ,than it's would be in your best interest(and you kids) to buy one from a builder new/used"

Very good point right now over three or four classifieds around the ML forums there are several rifles/smoothbores for 750-850 dollars the military guns don't pop up as often but with some looking and waiting one can have a nice gun for a little more than the price of the parts.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you are going to do proof testing, check the back of Dixie Gun Works Catalog for Proof loads, and instructions on how its done.

 

[Mulebrain]

If anyone here like guns made in India, that's your business.

I will say, however why pay for inferior quality, and lower resale value?

Paying cheaper prices on the front end, can sure hurt more on the back end!

I had a Pedersoli, and that quality was good, and proofed barrel etc....

 

[kevindj]

It seems I am sensing a little hostility here which seems to bolster my point.

No, I am by no means a newbie, only to this forum. I have witnessed my share of clanish behavior and snickering about someones 'incorrect' outfit or persona. Maybe where you come from no one exhibits snobbish behavior, but not so long ago I was a victim of critisism, and by the way, it was unjustified, just a local group that thinks they are better.


Back to my point, we should welcome all who show up with these guns and not be so arrogant as to think our better guns make us better. The guns may be better but are we?


So let's take this to the next level

$25 hat or $150
$20 sash or $275
$80 frock or $300
$25 hawk or $150
$39 hunting bag or $175
$25 knife or $400

I agree there is nothing like a well made gun, it's a work of art. BUT, there were gun makers 250 years ago turning out less than perfect guns too. Trouble is, we have few examples of those because only the nice ones were handed down. The others likely rusted away in the barn or were used for fence posts.( I know - someone will say that's all Indian guns are good for too)

I think I will depart this post because the lines in the sand are clear. Few opinions will be changed. What we show the newbie in a discussion like this is there really is a class seperation in the equipment we deem acceptable.

Just speaking my mind.

 

[Mike Brooks]

GOOD GOLLY, Just take a critical LOOK at those things, that should be enough. :haha:

 

[kevindj]

GOOD GOLLY, Just take a critical LOOK at those things, that should be enough. :haha:

If you are concerned about safety - I might agree. But if you are concerned about the LOOKS, then you prove MY point. Thank you!

 

[tg]

No hostility and I guess I have been fortunate not to get runin by the Nazi PC Police, I just don't like to send a newbee down the path of what I see as inferior goods as for all the accesories one can have a very nice quaility bag or knife at the bottom end of the scale, same with the other items, as Mike said look at them the pictures on the websites were enough to cause me to look no further, I would rather save for a better product or as I have several times, buy used, I have a Chambers Early Virginia smoothrifle that came with bag horn and a box full of goodies that cost me $800 these deals are out there very often,this in my view is a better way to go.

 

[Mike Brooks]

GOOD GOLLY, Just take a critical LOOK at those things, that should be enough. :haha:

If you are concerned about safety - I might agree. But if you are concerned about the LOOKS, then you prove MY point. Thank you!

Well, I guess I don't understand your point then. If you're reenacting Emer Fudd and Bugs Bunny I think these Indian guns would be an excellent choice. :thumbsup:

 

[Capt. Jas.]

No problems here either. The original poster requested opinions and experience on the India guns. I gave mine. I am not in control of the purse strings of others and they can do as they please.

You cant make chicken salad out of chicken manure though. :hatsoff: