Indian Made Muskets ?

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Alexei

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I'm kinda late coming into the game. I was recently offered a trade involving a replica French musket, but backed off because it was Indian made. My only experience with Indian made goods is with their Bess and CW bayonets, and I have seen some real crap (both in the quality of the steel and the craftsmanship). I guess it all comes down to "safety". An ignorant person such as myself just assumes their firearms are substantially less than optimal. Am I being too harsh, or are some of their products acceptable? Please enlighten me.
 

FlinterNick

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I'm kinda late coming into the game. I was recently offered a trade involving a replica French musket, but backed off because it was Indian made. My only experience with Indian made goods is with their Bess and CW bayonets, and I have seen some real crap (both in the quality of the steel and the craftsmanship). I guess it all comes down to "safety". An ignorant person such as myself just assumes their firearms are substantially less than optimal. Am I being too harsh, or are some of their products acceptable? Please enlighten me.
Indian made guns are hit or miss, I’ve seen some really nice ones an some really bad ones, there’s no real middle ground.

I’d hesitate to buy a used Indian made gun For a few reasons.

They do need to be checked out for safety, being in that the vent was correctly drilled and the breech plug is correctly set/threaded in.

Some Indian gun makes also mistakenly oversize the barrels which can lead to issues regarding the boring of the guns. Loyalist Arms does a good job on making sure they Indian guns they sell are fairly accurate and safe to use.
 

Grenadier1758

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I have seen the range of quality of the Indian manufactured muskets too. I have a Long Land Pattern from Loyalist Arms and a Serjeants Carbine from Loyalist Arms. You do have to pay attention to what they offer. I did a thorough inspection of those guns before I bought them, used off a trade blanket. I do know of one Loyalist Bess that had a bent barrel. It functioned reliably and was great for shooting blanks. No one wanted to take it apart and straighten the barrel. None the less, the Loyalist Arms muskets that we use in my unit have proven safe and reliable. We do mostly firing of blank rounds and we do participate in several live fire events. Sometimes we hit the targets.
 

Pukka Sahib

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Indian made guns are hit or miss, I’ve seen some really nice ones an some really bad ones, there’s no real middle ground.

I’d hesitate to buy a used Indian made gun For a few reasons.

They do need to be checked out for safety, being in that the vent was correctly drilled and the breech plug is correctly set/threaded in.

Some Indian gun makes also mistakenly oversize the barrels which can lead to issues regarding the boring of the guns. Loyalist Arms does a good job on making sure they Indian guns they sell are fairly accurate and safe to use.
That's helpful. Thank you !
 

Leadball loader

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They can be the answer to a limited budget with a little attention.
Mine was worth the time and effort I put in at a price I could handle. Just worked my way to a usable piece that shoots better than me.
LBL
 

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Sam squanch

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But if you buy from a merchant who really goes over them, I guess you may be OK.....
 

FlinterNick

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I see them often at my group meetings, i just dont like the feel of them. The kinda work needed to make one to my liking just isnt worth it
 

Boston123

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When I was first looking for a flintlock, I was debating between an Indian-made gun, an Italian-made gun, or a custom-made gun.

This was back in March of last year, and Italy was getting demolished by the Coronapocalypse, so there were apparently no guns from the period I wanted available from Pedersoli.

Custom guns are .....uh, expensive.

So, I started looking at Indian made guns. Asides from the horror stories about guns blowing up, I read a ton of posts on a ton of different sites talking about how the fit and finish on Indian guns tends to be off, about how the frizzens and locks and springs could use work, etc

Since I was planning on using my gun for hunting in the field as well as for reenacting, I decided to bite the bullet (heh) and commission a built gun. At least I know the parts on it are adequate and designed to be shot from the get-go, as opposed to me having to drill the touchhole.

I have very little experience with muzzleloaders, but just from what I have read online: if you are planning on just shooting blanks of powder, no bullets, go with an Indian made gun. If you want to actually fire the weapon with a bullet down the barrel, you can still go with an Indian made gun, but there are better options.
 

dave_person

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Hi,
It comes down to what you want. Is it a historically correct gun for reenacting or a collection? The answer is no India-made musket will suffice for that. If you are a reenactor who cannot afford a correctly made gun, well the India-made version might do as a rough draft of the real thing. If you don't care about historical accuracy and don't want to spend the money for that, the India-made gun may be just the ticket. I believe the safety issue of the barrel is a red herring. I am not aware of any unambiguous example of failure. However, the locks are hit or miss. Some spark well and are safe some are not. Personally, I would never own one but then I can build anything I want.

dave
 

FlinterNick

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When I was first looking for a flintlock, I was debating between an Indian-made gun, an Italian-made gun, or a custom-made gun.

This was back in March of last year, and Italy was getting demolished by the Coronapocalypse, so there were apparently no guns from the period I wanted available from Pedersoli.

Custom guns are .....uh, expensive.

So, I started looking at Indian made guns. Asides from the horror stories about guns blowing up, I read a ton of posts on a ton of different sites talking about how the fit and finish on Indian guns tends to be off, about how the frizzens and locks and springs could use work, etc

Since I was planning on using my gun for hunting in the field as well as for reenacting, I decided to bite the bullet (heh) and commission a built gun. At least I know the parts on it are adequate and designed to be shot from the get-go, as opposed to me having to drill the touchhole.

I have very little experience with muzzleloaders, but just from what I have read online: if you are planning on just shooting blanks of powder, no bullets, go with an Indian made gun. If you want to actually fire the weapon with a bullet down the barrel, you can still go with an Indian made gun, but there are better options.
For me its the weight, the barrels, and the wood quality is terrible.

I‘ve tried to help with staining and finishing one, the teak or rosewood just wouldn’t take stain or oil, we had to settle for dye and spar like varnish.

The barrels I just don’t trust, and are very oversized.
 

FlinterNick

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When I was first looking for a flintlock, I was debating between an Indian-made gun, an Italian-made gun, or a custom-made gun.

This was back in March of last year, and Italy was getting demolished by the Coronapocalypse, so there were apparently no guns from the period I wanted available from Pedersoli.

Custom guns are .....uh, expensive.

So, I started looking at Indian made guns. Asides from the horror stories about guns blowing up, I read a ton of posts on a ton of different sites talking about how the fit and finish on Indian guns tends to be off, about how the frizzens and locks and springs could use work, etc

Since I was planning on using my gun for hunting in the field as well as for reenacting, I decided to bite the bullet (heh) and commission a built gun. At least I know the parts on it are adequate and designed to be shot from the get-go, as opposed to me having to drill the touchhole.

I have very little experience with muzzleloaders, but just from what I have read online: if you are planning on just shooting blanks of powder, no bullets, go with an Indian made gun. If you want to actually fire the weapon with a bullet down the barrel, you can still go with an Indian made gun, but there are better options.
well It’s an expensive hobby
 

Griz44Mag

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I'm kinda late coming into the game. I was recently offered a trade involving a replica French musket, but backed off because it was Indian made. My only experience with Indian made goods is with their Bess and CW bayonets, and I have seen some real crap (both in the quality of the steel and the craftsmanship). I guess it all comes down to "safety". An ignorant person such as myself just assumes their firearms are substantially less than optimal. Am I being too harsh, or are some of their products acceptable? Please enlighten me.
That's like saying every Tree that grows in America is made of rotten wood.
There's more than one manufacturer there. Just like there's more than one tree here.
I have a MSV Bess and it looks good and shoots great.
I have heard other bad mouth them like a red headed step child stealing cookies.
You can get a lemon off any new car lot - including expensive Italian sports cars.
 

dogfood

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I had a Brown Bess purchased from Loyalist Arms out of Nova Scotia. The guy is great to deal with and enjoys a good chat. That goes a long way for me. Word on the street is that his muskets are top of the Indian line. I've not run a comparison so my sample set of 1 from Loyalist is anecdotal, but I was quite pleased with the Bess. I believe that seamless pneumatic tubing is used for the barrels. They come over to Canada (in this case) at 70% complete and Terry (i think his name is) and company finish them there. Some import regulations thing I imagine. Indian has real]y strict gun laws. I know for sure he has to drill the touch holes.
My Bess sparked every time. My only complaint is that musket was HEAVY being made out of dense teak wood, I believe. I was working at the RI Historical Society at the time and handled many original Besses and the weight difference was the only thing that stood out.
I eventually wound up trading it off when I moved out of state and thus was no longer in the unit. Had I stayed, I would have kept the Bess but lightened it. The guy that I swapped with said he bored a lot of wood outta the inside of the but and that made a big difference.

I've heard Indian muskets described as kits that come assembled and I think that's a very good description of them. They can be awesome but to achieve such awesomeness they need a bit of work.
There. not big hassles getting it across the border, btw. only thing is that the lock has to ship separately.

I myself am looking to get a Fusil de Chasse/Tulle right now and I am stuck between a TVM kit and a Loyalist finished one.
Hope that was at least somewhat helpful.
Cheers,
-dgfd
 

bjarard

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++ on the Heavy note. We have some people with Loyalist(Indian) guns. I let them lift my Navy Arms Charleville....the look on their face said it all. They are very heavy. Springs are also massive.
 

Ohio.75

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I think they can be a great entry into the hobby, especially when cost is an issue. MVTCo. even offers layaway. I have one Indian gun that seems to be made well and performs well, but now I am having another gun custom made here.
 

FlinterNick

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I think they can be a great entry into the hobby, especially when cost is an issue. MVTCo. even offers layaway. I have one Indian gun that seems to be made well and performs well, but now I am having another gun custom made here.
layaway with Pete from middlesex .... ?! I doubt his books are in order. He is well known for shorting refunds and over charges.
 

Trot

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I had a Brown Bess purchased from Loyalist Arms out of Nova Scotia. The guy is great to deal with and enjoys a good chat. That goes a long way for me. Word on the street is that his muskets are top of the Indian line. I've not run a comparison so my sample set of 1 from Loyalist is anecdotal, but I was quite pleased with the Bess. I believe that seamless pneumatic tubing is used for the barrels. They come over to Canada (in this case) at 70% complete and Terry (i think his name is) and company finish them there. Some import regulations thing I imagine. Indian has real]y strict gun laws. I know for sure he has to drill the touch holes.
My Bess sparked every time. My only complaint is that musket was HEAVY being made out of dense teak wood, I believe. I was working at the RI Historical Society at the time and handled many original Besses and the weight difference was the only thing that stood out.
I eventually wound up trading it off when I moved out of state and thus was no longer in the unit. Had I stayed, I would have kept the Bess but lightened it. The guy that I swapped with said he bored a lot of wood outta the inside of the but and that made a big difference.

I've heard Indian muskets described as kits that come assembled and I think that's a very good description of them. They can be awesome but to achieve such awesomeness they need a bit of work.
There. not big hassles getting it across the border, btw. only thing is that the lock has to ship separately.

I myself am looking to get a Fusil de Chasse/Tulle right now and I am stuck between a TVM kit and a Loyalist finished one.
Hope that was at least somewhat helpful.
Cheers,
-dgfd
If you are interested in a French gun, take a look at some of Alex Efremenko's guns on this site, he is a master of the French gun. [Sorry if I spelled it wrong Alex] They are very slim and light, That is one area where the Indian guns are just not going to come close. A chunky heavy Bess is one thing, but the French guns are all about slim and light!
 

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