What to use for a powder measure?

Grenadier1758 · Nov 19, 2022

Eutycus said:
You think maybe he dumped the 35 gr. measure twice as in 35×2=70?

That would get 70 grains of powder poured down the muzzle with the contents of the flask available to explode if any burning embers are left in the barrel. Sure, precautions can be taken and it is possible that no unhappy burning of powder take place while the flask is in your hands. I would much rather pour powder into an adjustable powder measure and just have the one charge going into the barrel.

Eutycus · Nov 19, 2022

Any burning embers would have set off the first 35 grains way before the second was ever poured. That would only be half the damage wouldn't it?

Notchy Bob · Nov 19, 2022

Joshua,

I’m wondering if you might have done some reloading with smokeless powders. If so, it is important to understand that black powder is a whole different thing. Volumetric black powder charges seem quite large when compared to the weights of smokeless powders.

As someone noted above, one “grain” of black powder, by volume, per caliber is usually a good starting point, e.g. fifty grains of powder for a .50 caliber rifle, and increase your powder charge a few grains at a time until you are getting the accuracy and performance you want.

A basic black powder loading manual is a good investment, if you didn’t get a manual with your new rifle.

Some very meticulous muzzleloading target shooters weigh their charges, but measuring by volume is the generally accepted standard. Depending on the brand and granulation of your black powder, there is not always a one-to-one correlation of grains weight to grains volume. Also, some of the black powder substitutes are lighter in weight than real black powder. Measuring charges by volume is the way to go. You can get an adjustable measure for a very reasonable cost, and it will last your lifetime.

Notchy Bob

Grenadier1758 · Nov 19, 2022

Eutycus said:
Any burning embers would have set off the first 35 grains way before the second was ever poured. That would only be half the damage wouldn't it?

No, the flask would have 35 more grains. Depending on how many grains were left in the flask, there would be more damage than I would care to correct.

Eutycus · Nov 19, 2022

In that scenario you'd be right but there is no need for the flask/horn to be up close to the muzzle for the second loading. Or even the first loading for that matter. Load the measure and then take a few steps and dump it down the muzzle.

oldwood · Nov 19, 2022

This might be a little "over the top" , but I buy thin wall 1/2 " brass tubing ,and cut it to an estimated length for different gr. measures , then solder a brass or copper sheet metal on one end w/loop hole for a lanyard. Few come out correct sizer , but if too large , a trip to the coarse belt on the belt sander makes them close. I measure powder w/ a measure like I told about in the beginning comment, pouring from a horn w/a mounted , spring closure valve. This adds a good safety factor for an old forgetful shooter............oldwood

Notchy Bob · Nov 19, 2022

I love powder horns for the tradition, ease of carry, and appearance, but I frequently use a powder flask with a charger top at the range. I have a variety of interchangeable flask spouts for different charges.

The method I use is to put a funnel of the type used for refilling flasks into the muzzle of the rifle. I use the flask in the customary way, but pour the charge into a 100-grain "finger charger," like this one from Track of the Wolf: 100 Grain Fixed Powder Measure

The flask is laid aside, and the powder is poured from the fixed charger into the rifle via the funnel. The funnel is then removed from the barrel and the patched ball is loaded as usual.

It sounds complicated, it is very safe, fast, and there is no spilled or wasted powder. You can wear that fixed charger on a long cord or thong around your neck so it is always handy. Just drop it after you have poured the powder into the barrel.

This works for me.

Notchy Bob

BadDaditood · Nov 20, 2022

smoothshooter said:
35 grains is a pretty light load for a .54.
But I would not go over 80 grains on the other end myself.

35 gn is super light for a .54, but 80 gn is just getting started!
But seriously I’ve settled on 70 gn in the Jim Bridger kit from Track. It’s a 36” bbl 1 1/8” at the breech tapering to 1” at the muzzle.
It’s VERY heavy but can handle 100 to 120 gn loads without being too terribly punishing.
It’s the second winningest rifle I’ve built!!

I like this measure to check the capacity of the measures I make out of straight walled brass or antler.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/85/1/MAS-120
It’s got a little funnel that swivels over the measure… new ones can be really aggravating if it swivels and dumps most of your charge outside of the barrel… the rivet it hinges on needs a smack on the head with a ball peen hammer… tighten that bad boy up!

Mr. Flintlock · Nov 20, 2022

Using a powder flask is pretty low risk. During the Civil War there were millions of rounds loaded and fired using a flask. I not saying it didn't happen, but I never read anything about flasks blowing up.yl 2 cents.

Chuckster60 · Nov 20, 2022

Thank You*SDSmlf I did screen shoot of your chart my next stop is the local indoor shooting range! Cheers!

earlwb · Nov 20, 2022

I used various cartridge cases to good effect for powder measures. I would leave the spent primer in the used case. I soldered on a length of metal coat hanger to serve as a handle, bent and looped as needed. Antlers made for good powder measures too. Even a piece of wood cut, drilled and carved to shape works. Of course nowadays I am not sure they still make metal coat hangers. One might have to use stiff copper electrical wire instead.

So there are all kinds of ways to make or come up with powder measures including store bought ones too. But normally we use volume measurements not weight for black powder. It makes sense as almost no outdoorsman carried a weighing scale along with them when out in the field.

Rfp10000 · Nov 20, 2022

Treso Texas
[email protected]

Tenmile · Nov 20, 2022

I run a damp patch followed by a dry one between shots. A lot of people think this is a waste, but if there were a burning ember this reduces the risk of prematurely igniting a charge. Almost nobody on our range does this. I think you could get a bad burn from a single charge. It does tend to foul patent breeches though.

earlwb · Nov 20, 2022

Tenmile said:
I run a damp patch followed by a dry one between shots. A lot of people think this is a waste, but if there were a burning ember this reduces the risk of prematurely igniting a charge. Almost nobody on our range does this. I think you could get a bad burn from a single charge. It does tend to foul patent breeches though.

The target shooters tend to clean their barrels after every shot too. Especially the bench rest shooters. Not a bad idea with the damp patch and dry patch method. It can still ruin one’s day if a powder charge ignited while being poured down the barrel. I kinda like doing a slow methodical process for loading a muzzleloader anyway. It is a relaxing way to target shoot. It is sort of a zen kind of thing. It is much more relaxing than blasting away at a target with a couple hundred rounds in a few seconds.

Art Caputo · Nov 20, 2022

I like to keep it simple…….I have an antler measure(optimum charge) for each rifle load.

smoothshooter · Nov 20, 2022

BadDaditood said:
35 gn is super light for a .54, but 80 gn is just getting started!
But seriously I’ve settled on 70 gn in the Jim Bridger kit from Track. It’s a 36” bbl 1 1/8” at the breech tapering to 1” at the muzzle.
It’s VERY heavy but can handle 100 to 120 gn loads without being too terribly punishing.
It’s the second winningest rifle I’ve built!!

I like this measure to check the capacity of the measures I make out of straight walled brass or antler.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/85/1/MAS-120
It’s got a little funnel that swivels over the measure… new ones can be really aggravating if it swivels and dumps most of your charge outside of the barrel… the rivet it hinges on needs a smack on the head with a ball peen hammer… tighten that bad boy up!

80 grains is not a heavy load, I know. Some people routinely use 100 grains or more.
But 80 in a .54 is a decent power level general purpose load.
I usually use about 70-75 grains for general shooting. But I don’t deer hunt any more.

oldracer · Nov 20, 2022

For my general muzzle loader shooting I made separate volumes of 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 and 110 grains. I bought a section of copper tube and a dowel that fit snugly. I measured the various charges after checking VOLUME which is the important. I repeated this for each charge moving the dowel to make each one right! I put a small screw in the side so all stayed as measured. I engraved the charge on the side. I keep them in my shooting box and use the 80 grain the most except slug guns which are 100 grain. Note this will work for target shooters mostly, not hunters.
John

Bob K · Nov 20, 2022

deerstalkert said:
just as a cautionary tale. I am not trying to scare you away from this hobby/lifestyle/addiction but am going to post a friends post from another forum in an attempt to give you some idea of a don't do this.
A friend had a very bad accident at his shooting range this past weekend. First off, he is a very careful man in all of his shooting pursuits, seriously, but sometimes it's the little things that are our (his) undoing.

While shooting a new-to-him .54 Hawken percussion gun, a can of blackpowder exploded at less than arms length. A spark from the gun ignited the powder. It was standing open on the bench because he was charging his powder measure directly from the can for each shot, his protocol being to close the can after each charging. He dropped the can lid on the ground, but went ahead and fired the freshly prepped charge before bending down to retrieve it, leaving the container stand open. "I'll pick it up after this shot."

How can a percussion gun dispense such sparkage so as to cause the explosion?

Evidently, upon thorough investigation after the fact the gun was found to have its hammer at full cock. Hmmm, that shouldn't be, it should've been down in the fired position resting on the spent cap. Upon removing the nipple for cleaning the why-for became obvious - its vent hole had been reamed out to a very large diameter by a previous owner. The resultant magnified venting allowed an excessive amount of back-blast to channel back out into the atmosphere, throwing lots of hot flotsam and jetsam out and causing the hammer to fly back into full cock. One tiny bit of something, or a spark, made a perfect dive into the powder can. Boom.

It blew his shooting box 20 feet away, and scattered everything else to hell-and-gone. He himself is a very very very lucky man - he sustained 1st&2nd degree, and some 3rd degree, burns over his head and upper body. All hair - poof, gone. Clothes on fire. Scary (but good) part was his shooting glasses looked like they were raked through the coals of a campfire and then shot with a shotgun - but his eyes were A-ok. Luckily there was somebody with him who got him squared away and a trip to the ER got him fixed up (kind of). He's home and on the mend, but really rattled as you might imagine. (The gun is perfectly ok.)

Moral of the story: don't drill out the hole in a percussion rifle nipple, even if you think it might aid ignition for some reason; and don't ever leave containers of gunpowder stand open on the shooting bench. If you're having ignition issues, resolve them by other means.

I’m glad your friend is going to mend. I pulled a very rookie mistake like this a few years ago. I had purchased a container of 50 gr powder pellets to evaluate. I took a few shots and next shot created a spark the went directly into the open container of pellets. No explosion but a hugh fireball shot up and scorched the wooden roof pretty badly. I was able to quickly grab my container of soapy water that I carry and put out the flame. There was a young couple shooting in the next stall that gave me a look like “what a dope” and continues their shooting. Well, I agreed with them 1000%. My baptism by fire story.

rrebuck · Nov 20, 2022

Stantheman86 said:
I use an empty .303 British case for my Parker-Hale P53. It holds about 50 or so grains. I have other measures but it feels cool to use it and it happens to be a perfect target load .

I just don't always like the adjustable measures, I like to have a fixed measure for each rifle

I also buy cheap glass bottles made for party favors, and use them as premeasured charges.

I ground down a 357 mag case to use a a powder measure for my 32 Caliber rifle.

rkg1 · Nov 20, 2022

An adjustable measure is the easiest way to go although they are a little heavy.

What to use for a powder measure?

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