Drams to Grains?

[Feltwad]

Right, but what I’m pointing out is that for example- one of my measures throws closer to 3 drams when it is actually set to 3 1/2 drams. So you have to check how much they actually throw. I’m sure they all have variance, particularly with different brands of powder

If a flask is throwing a different measure to what it is set is mainly due to two major faults , first is a fault on the shutter and the other is the method of loading which is common for a short load . To load a flask if right handed place the flask in the right hand with the spout or measure whatever you may call it in a down ward position down the side of your leg place your for e finger over the spout and open the shutter with your thumb ,while in this position slap the flask a couple of times on the side of your leg to make sure that the spout is full then release the shutter and with your fore finger still on the spout end up right the flask and remove your finger . Your measure of powder should be level with the top of the spout if not the flask has a faulty shutter or you have pressed your fore finger too hard on the spout when filling
For shotguns always use a volume load my loads for a sporting gun using 2 1/8 card wad over powder and 1 1/16 card wad over shot
20 bore 2 drms of powder to 7/8 oz of shot
16 bore 2.1/2 drm of powder to 1oz of shot
12 bore 2.3/4 drm of powder to 1.1/8 oz of shot
10bore 3 drm of powder to 1.1/4 oz of shot
On bore sizes larger than 12 loads can be increase slightly but not too much for a good pattern
Feltwad

 

[tenngun]

You can calculate it yourself.

There are 7,000 grains in a pound.

There are 16 ounces in a pound, and 16 drams in an ounce. 16 x 16 = 256 drams per pound.

7,000 grains divided by 256 drams = 27.3438 grains per dram.

Powder flasks with adjustable spouts are usually calibrated in quarter dram increments. For rough calculation, you can estimate about 7 grains per quarter dram, or 27 grains per whole dram.

Old-timers frequently calculated their loads in drams, or fractions thereof. I’m sort of a traditionalist, and I’ve been considering modifying the stem of an adjustable powder measure to show quarter dram increments rather than the usual five grain increments. Just for the hell of it. Just because I’m a grumpy, ornery old man.

Notchy Bob

Oh I like that idea

 

[tenngun]

2 1/2 drams with 1 1/8 oz shot sounds like it would produce a really low velocity - 1000 fps or so? Does it produce a workable hunting load for you?

Less powder means tighter patterns. If your cylinder bored about 25 yards is max range
I use the tuna can test. If I can shoot through the bottom of a tuna can I can kill up yo turkey with my load, I shoot about 2&1/2, with and ounce and a half or so

 

[mushka]

I am a modern man and the dram doesn't meant much to me. I just use the loads in grains of powder that are recommended by member of the board. Powder in grains, card, shot in oz, card, good enough without the confusion of dealing with the archaic dram for me.

 

[Feltwad]

I am a modern man and the dram doesn't meant much to me. I just use the loads in grains of powder that are recommended by member of the board. Powder in grains, card, shot in oz, card, good enough without the confusion of dealing with the archaic dram for me.

Every man to his own but you cannot learn an old dog new tricks for shooting black powder for 75 years I think I will stick to drms and not reckon out in grains
Feltwad

 

[Grenadier1758]

Howdy all, I just received my first powder flask in the mail today. It's a James Dixon & Son's & Sheffield flask with an adjustable spout measure. However its marked as "drams" and it begins with 2, going up to 3 as follows. 2, 2 1/4, 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 3. I can't find any consistent conversions online and figured I'd ask here. How many grains would be in these dram measurements or can anyone give a formula to convert? I'd use my own powder measure and such if I had one. I'm still beginning in black powder and I'm still building my supply of accessories and such. Thanks and have a blessed day.

-Poke

Your flask is designed and intended for use in loading a shotgun, not a rifle. You are correct in that a separate measure should be used to transfer the load from the flask to the measure to the barrel. The 27.3438 grains per dram is the correct conversion. The specific grains that your flask throws can easily calculated. Starting from 54.7 grains (2 drams) to 82 grains (3 drams) would be an approximate conversion.

 

[BillRob]

Less powder means tighter patterns. If your cylinder bored about 25 yards is max range
I use the tuna can test. If I can shoot through the bottom of a tuna can I can kill up yo turkey with my load, I shoot about 2&1/2, with and ounce and a half or so

Makes sense - thanks!

 

[Feltwad]

Your flask is designed and intended for use in loading a shotgun, not a rifle. You are correct in that a separate measure should be used to transfer the load from the flask to the measure to the barrel. The 27.3438 grains per dram is the correct conversion. The specific grains that your flask throws can easily calculated. Starting from 54.7 grains (2 drams) to 82 grains (3 drams) would be an approximate conversion.

Yes the flask in question is more for a shotgun but flask were made by Dixon & Son also for a rifles
Feltwad

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Now y' done it! I suddenly have an urge to acquire a set of deer antler powder measures calibrated in drams. Next buck I shoot will not have his antlers hung on the side of the barn.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Flasks with the charger spouts are indeed much used with muzzleloading shotguns, but I believe the US government itself issued a flask for use with the M1841 "Mississippi" Rifle, which was intended to shoot a patched round ball. I think the government-issued cap and ball revolvers were generally loaded with paper cartridges, yet both Colt and Remington produced flasks for their handguns. There is a specific flask associated with the Walker revolver.

When Horace Kephart completed his famous test firing of an original but previously un-used .52 (actually more likely a .54) Hawken rifle, he said, "My charger happened to hold just forty-one grains of FFG Deadshot," so he tried various charges in multiples of 41 grains... 41 grains, then 82 grains, 123 grains, 164, and finally 205 grains. How did he end up with a 41 grain charger? I have often wondered, but we do know that 41 grains is exactly (within a couple of hundredths) one and one-half drams. I read in some old literature that this was considered a heavy service load for the .44 Dragoon revolvers, and I speculated that Horace might have had a revolver flask with a charger spout of that size. On the other hand, an article in a very old issue of Muzzle Blasts listed the capacities of various brass cartridge cases*, and I recall an empty .45 Colt case was said to hold 41 grains, although I don't know if this was an old-style "balloon-head" case or one of the more modern solid-head types. I suppose there might be a slight difference in capacity. In any event, I've speculated that if Mr. Kephart wasn't using a flask with a charger top, maybe he was using a .45 Colt case as a powder measure.

And, no, I haven't verified that capacity yet, but I intend to check it out if I can ever get a little time at home without interruptions. Old-time weights and measures interest me. I have empty brass available in several historic chamberings.

These are the things that keep me awake at night...

Notchy Bob

*I think there may be a list of cartridge-case capacities in a "sticky" here on the forum, someplace. I'm not sure where, though.

 

[Eterry]

If a flask is throwing a different measure to what it is set is mainly due to two major faults , first is a fault on the shutter and the other is the method of loading which is common for a short load . To load a flask if right handed place the flask in the right hand with the spout or measure whatever you may call it in a down ward position down the side of your leg place your for e finger over the spout and open the shutter with your thumb ,while in this position slap the flask a couple of times on the side of your leg to make sure that the spout is full then release the shutter and with your fore finger still on the spout end up right the flask and remove your finger . Your measure of powder should be level with the top of the spout if not the flask has a faulty shutter or you have pressed your fore finger too hard on the spout when filling
For shotguns always use a volume load my loads for a sporting gun using 2 1/8 card wad over powder and 1 1/16 card wad over shot
20 bore 2 drms of powder to 7/8 oz of shot
16 bore 2.1/2 drm of powder to 1oz of shot
12 bore 2.3/4 drm of powder to 1.1/8 oz of shot
10bore 3 drm of powder to 1.1/4 oz of shot
On bore sizes larger than 12 loads can be increase slightly but not too much for a good pattern
FeltwadView attachment 203895

Thanks for the info, Feltwad. I haven't been slapping mine against my leg. It definitely couldn't hurt.

 

[Eterry]

2 1/2 drams with 1 1/8 oz shot sounds like it would produce a really low velocity - 1000 fps or so? Does it produce a workable hunting load for you?

I use fffg, ( oh the horror!), and in my original William Moore 12. I've cleanly taken dove, crow, and one much larger bird on the wing with that load. My experience shows a hotter load blows the pattern.
YMMV.

 

[smo]

By volume..

 

[wganz]

To not be a jackass towards the OP & being on lunch break, ran through this quickly for him:

2 grains - 55
2 1/4 - 62
2 1/2 - 68
2 3/4 - 75
3 - 82

Highly advise that you cross verify with an actual scale especially since is being used for charge determination. Better safe than sorry here.

 

[Notchy Bob]

By volume..

View attachment 204016

That's a terrific chart, @smo ! Thanks for posting it.

Interestingly enough, those powder charges are not random, but they appear to be dram-to-grain conversions. Starting at the top, 102 grains would equal 3-3/4 drams, 109 grains = 4 drams, 124 grains = 4-1/2 drams, 76 grains = 2-3/4 drams...

Notchy Bob

 

[smo]

It came from a pretty reliable source….

In the General Muzzleloading section..
Under Tables and Useful Information…