Wow, prices for new Pedersoli rifles

[Don Steele]

Thank you Crewdawg. Awesome classic video of the ol' timey process for producing a rifle. I believe that's Walter Cronkite doing the narration.
The last used Colonial Williamsburg rifle I looked at was listed for $8,000.00, and generally considered by folks who know a lot more about them than me to be a STEAL at that price.

 

[hthomso]

Yeah, I remember seeing that video when it came out in the late 60's. It was after I built my first rifle. I thought I'd done a great job on that build but when I saw Gunsmith of Williamsburg, I realized I had a very, very long way to go. Amazing skills for someone so young. By the way, David Brinkley did the narration.

 

[Stantheman86]

In the 1980's I remember going to Williamsburg with my parents and seeing a couple guys making rifles in the rifle shop. I assume they don't do this anymore?

 

[Artificer]

In the 1980's I remember going to Williamsburg with my parents and seeing a couple guys making rifles in the rifle shop. I assume they don't do this anymore?

My last visit to CW was during the Event "Under the Red Coat" around 2005 and the free standing house that held the Gunsmith Shop was still there. You many recall that's the one where visitors were brought through the side room past the rifling bench and then worked their way into the shop.

However, as I understand it from recent conversations with Erik Goldstein, the Curator of Mechanical Arts and Numismatics at Colonial Williamsburg and Co-Author of the book "The Brown Bess," that building was moved or taken down. This partially because that building was not in that location during the historic period.

The Gun Shop has been moved twice since that time. First they moved into The Geddy Forge and Foundry Shop as gunsmithing had gone on there during the period. However, I suspect that was not the best location and/or sort of interfered with the Blacksmithing demonstrations they usually did there. So they planned and eventually did move the Gun Shop again.

"In January of 2016 the Gunsmith Shop at Colonial Williamsburg opened its doors to the public once more at the Ayscough house. Situated "at the sign of the crossed guns" on Francis street, south of the Capitol building."
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-gunsmith-shop-at-colonial.html

Another site shows the Gun Shop open from Wednesday through Sunday (closed Monday and Tuesday.)

Gus

 

[Crewdawg445]

My absolute dream job.

 

[Artificer]

My absolute dream job.

Mine as well. I always hoped that after I retired from the Corps, I might have been able to do that.

Unfortunately, the closest I ever came was back in the 1980's and while waiting in line as a tourist in the side room, next to the rifling bench. There was an Apprentice working on filing the face of a large hammer, no doubt to teach him how to draw file. Since the line moved so slowly, I watched that poor Apprentice struggle in vain for over 10 minutes. Finally I was able to edge over near him and began to teach him the " Ancient Art and Mysterie of Zen Draw Filing." Of course there is no such real thing, but that is how I got the attention of my Apprentices when I taught draw filing to them. I'm pleased to say like my Apprentices, it got through to him and he began to make real progress because he finally understood what he had to do.

Gary Brumfield was the Master of the Shop in those days and he must have noticed me helping the Apprentice, though I didn't see him until I entered the main shop. When I began asking many detailed question on the tools, Gary brought out all kinds of original tools for me to look at and spent quite some time with me answering questions.

Years later on a future visit, around the early 2,000's, I was very disappointed in how far downhill the Gun Shop had gone. But at least I got some good information on tools I was really interested in.

Fortunately, they have had some really good people come into the Gun Shop since that time and I look forward to my next trip.

Gus

 

[tenngun]

I wonder that some isn’t related to sales volume, the fewer the sales for a style the greater per unit.

That's not the way economics usually works.

???? I seem to have noted that companies selling widgets can cut the price the more they sell. HC ML stuff tends to be higher in general then modren stuff, because we are a fringe market. Budweiser tends to be cheaper then a craft beer that makes a thousand barrels a year. :idunno:

Generally, if you can't sell an item you drop the price. Once sales go up, you raise the price to the point where you reach a price you can sell in quantity and reduce the individual price per unit.If you only produce 10 Mausers per year, it has intrinsic value as a rarity. If it's recognized as a very special rifle. But if it's' a production gun and it doesn't sell, time to reduce price to get rid of inventory. Dixie GW offers them at $1100, out of stock.

Ok I see you point, so I think we were at cross points here. I was referring to primarily an idea the manufacturer knew would have limited sales volume when made. I’m thinking here of when colt continue cap and ball revolvers starting with the serial number they left off on. As I remember they were about twice the price as other repos, but you got a genuine colt not a navy arms repo. Colt knew when they came on line it would be a limited market.

 

[Bent Sight]

I have to agree; prices are a bit high for a lot of the black powder firearms on the market. A friend just paid several hundred dollars for a Pedersoli rifle. It is a beautiful rifle, but if I bought one it would look well used in a short period of time.

I have been looking for another .45 caliber rifle and I plan on shooting the daylights out of it. I walked into a local gun shop today and bought a Thompson Center Hawken .45 Caliber rifle. The bore was shiny, there was no wear on the bluing and no wear on the nipple or area on the rifle around the nipple. The ramrod did not have any marks on it. There were very few handling marks on the stock, barely noticeable. I suspect the rifle had not been fired, just sat in a few closets over the years.

I wound up paying $240 out the door for the TC Hawken. I may have paid a few dollars more than I should have, but it is the cleanest TC Hawken I have seen.

Anyone know the decade 5 digit serial numbered TC Hawkens were made?

 

[Artificer]

Ok I see you point, so I think we were at cross points here. I was referring to primarily an idea the manufacturer knew would have limited sales volume when made. I’m thinking here of when colt continue cap and ball revolvers starting with the serial number they left off on. As I remember they were about twice the price as other repos, but you got a genuine colt not a navy arms repo. Colt knew when they came on line it would be a limited market.

With sincere respect, I have to disagree. It was commonly believed the Colt repros were only assembled from parts made in Italy and not actually manufactured by Colt. Even if Colt did actually manufacture all the parts, the quality was below the original Colts by a long shot.

What people paid for was a repro with the Colt name on them, that was not up to the original standards.

Gus

 

[burlesontom]

I can't help you with the date but I love 45 caliber guns. My Cabelas Hawken I built from a kit long ago came in 45 caliber and is my most shot BP rifle by a large margin. :thumbsup:

 

[burlesontom]

But I would more likely buy one already built by a craftsman with a reputation for making them in the old style. Maybe some day...

https://youtu.be/bAzJOULyx5c

This "is" the old style, doing it this way will make ten Franklins seem like loose change!


Hope you enjoy the video, a VERY good watch, one of my absolute favorite videos to date!

I have watched that old film many times and it is just awsome. So much skill for so young a man.

I wonder what a rifle built by Herschel House sells for? I suspect a LOT. :shocked2:

 

[tenngun]

I had heard that, I never researched it as I had no interest in getting one. I could not tell on the ones I saw that in anyway looked better then navy arms at the time. But, yes people were willing to pay for the name.

 

[TFoley]

This is an old story, but parts of it bear repeating. The SECOND-series Colt revolvers were basically made by Uberti in Italy as parts, and then assembled in the Brooklyn 'factory/assembly plant' by the company called 'Colt Black Powder Firearms, Inc.' They were, and still are, VERY fine reproductions in almost very respect, and are good enough to have been passed off as genuine on occasions with a degree of subtle distressing. The screws, however, are all metric thread, and the metallurgy would be a give-away, but there are, sadly mugs out there. The so-called 'signature' series, called this because they bear a facsimile of Colt's signature on the backstrap or elsewhere, tend to be made with a little less attention to the finer detailing - or so I'm told. I have a Second-series Walker, as do many folks here, and it is a very fine piece indeed.

 

[Artificer]

In the mid 80's at the SHOT Show in New Orleans, Sue Hawkins of Euroarms introduced me to Mr. Zoli, who was then President of the Zoli Arms Manufacturing Company. (I may or even probably don't have the name of the company/corporation correct, though.)

I told Mr. Zoli that I knew they made some fine modern shotguns and other sporting arms that were really good quality, but always wondered why they didn't make their ML guns closer in quality to the originals. This because I knew they could do it.

Mr. Zoli explained of course they could do it as well, if not better and the metallurgy better than the originals, BUT they could not sell the guns for the price they would have to get. He gave me the example of a Colt 1851 revolver that would have to cost $ 275.00 retail at the time and according to him "no one would pay that much." A brand new S&W Model 19 was going for around $ 225.00 retail at the time and he was right that most people would not have spent an additional $ 50.00 for a "Repro Navy Colt."

Navy Arms and Euroarms Revolvers were retailing at the time for between $ 165.00 to $ 179.00, depending on the Model and a lot of people thought that was too much at the time.

Gus

 

[Gene L]

I think the lettering on the later Colts was intentionally different. I had one I never shot. I understood at the time Colt's machinery was no longer fit.

 

[smoothshooter]

Just checking out the new Pedersoli 1857 "Mauser" , at about $1500, wow, that better be a nice rifle......

I must admit I want one pretty bad.......but at double what you can find their Springfields and Enfields for , I would hope it has a match grade barrel.....

Pedersoli's prices should be near rock bottom since Italian currency ( the lira, I think ) and their economy is in serious trouble.
The exchange rate between the USD and the Italian Lira should be VERY favorable to Americans.

 

[sawyer04]

Pedersoli's prices should be near rock bottom since Italian currency ( the lira, I think ) and their economy is in serious trouble.
The exchange rate between the USD and the Italian Lira should be VERY favorable to Americans.

I have used muzzleloaders since the 70's. Bought assembled ones and kits. They were expensive then, accordingly to income and some kits required a lot of work. That being said, it was fun and really inexpensive shooting. These days and times several things has taken place in the reproduction world. Companies have sent representatives to the factories for R&D and require the refinements to be factory applied. Italy has the Italian arms group and uses the Euro dollar. The mark up is phenomenal when it is said and done. Several organized groups have been organized and seem to me to be a bit snooty about time period and shooting gear, another cause for increase in prices. As I am mostly a hunter I am not about to spend the amount of money required to purchase a muzzle loader, when a good cartridge rifle can be bought for half the amount. I hunt with the old powder sticks, but for me the lead and powder are cheaper to use because I don't have to start from the ground up. Absolutely no pun intended for the perfectos of the black powder shooting world, just my opinion.

 

[Bad Karma]

That's not the way economics usually works.

It is where I work.
Tooling up costs the same whether you build 10 units or 10K. past a certain volume the price can and will come down substantially.

 

[toot]

why is it that you can still buy an original muzzle loader, rifles or shot guns in shoot able condition much cheaper than an ITALIAN reproduction?

 

[Rat]

My "gun friends" go into shock when I talk about how I am looking at a $1500 Pedersoli rifle (or "musket" like most other people call them) and to them that's what they call "high end AR or 1911 money who's paying that for a blackpowder gun?????" I'm like , people do trust me.......then I tell them about Romano Rifles , where he gets upwards of $3000 for repros of CSA muzzleloading rifles, double that and then some if you want one of his breechloaders or the Spencer......

Yep...guys with inlines really don't understand how just the lock on my Jeager costs more than their rifle.