T/C Hawken woes

[bronko220002]

This was my own fault. I got a tc hawken flinter a few weeks ago and it appeared in great shape. Bore was clean and shiny but I gave it a thorough swabbing anyway. Today I decided to take it out and sight it in. It is to serve as a back up rifle to my .58 flinter for the PA primitive season.
Well the first attempt was a flash in the pan. OK I thought. Maybe some oil in the vent hole. Reprimed the pan and boom. Second shot a good deal of delay and boom again. (Before you say anything I know not to overfill the pan). After that it was hit or miss. No flash, flash in the pan, delayed firing. Some of this could have been the high humidity even tho I was wiping frizzen and flint after every shot.
Any how...I was able to get it shooting close and figured I had enough frustration for one day. When I got home I checked for spark in a dark room and the English flint didn't produce many.
I cleaned up the rifle and replaced the well worn frizzen with a new one. Sparking good now. Next was the vent liner. It was an original T/C. That went in the trash and a new RMC liner installed.
Hopefully things will go smoother next outing.

 

[Don Steele]

You may have resolved your issues. At the very least...I hope you also fit a new flint into your lock. Here's a few thoughts for anyone else reading this thread that might find them useful:
My routine includes wiping the frizzen and flint between shots...ALSO the pan. I use a cleaning patch, or small piece of paper towel...frizzen...flint...pan. Down here in Florida...any BP residue left after a shot turns to black soup REAL fast. I don't "pick" the vent every time, but it doesn't anything hurt to do so. The best vent liner I've found is the TC product that installs with a 1/8" Allen wrench ( part # 7327). They are well coned in the back and the octagonal hole for the wrench forms a natural "cone-like" opening facing the priming charge. VERY reliable. I see you installed a new frizzen. The best frizzen I've found for a T/C flintlock is offered by RMC. It's actually the frizzen for the Lyman flintlock, but is easily modified to fit a T/C. You can buy a Lyman and fit it yourself or just order one pre-fitted from RMC. Quite superior to the original from Thompson Center.

 

[kyron4]

Be sure to clean the patent breech of any oil or fouling.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The TC patent breech does not always fill with powder when loading. A good habit is to tip the rifle to the side and give a slap after pouring in the powder. This pretty much assures powder is going into the breech. Changes you have already made are good and should improve things for you.

 

[bronko220002]

Don, Kyron and Rifleman: Thanks but I did all those things even the Lyman frizzen. I've been at this game since the early 70s and know most of the "improvements" for the T/C flintlocks. It was my own fault for not checking everything out before hand. Its just that the rifle was in such good shape. I would imagine that this ignition issue was the reason the previous owner got rid of it.
I will be taking it out again to see how she performs. Even though it will only be a back up rifle I want it working as it should.

 

[Scota@4570]

The TC locks were not reliable. My first ML was a TC flintlock. The geometry between the cock and frizzen is wrong. IT will eat flints for lunch. The frizzen was made with only a thin case hardening. Once that breaks through it will not spark. The RPL locks are not drop in.

I shot my first ML buck with my TC flinter. Good thing he was oblivious. It took three tries to get the rifle to fire.

I got tired of it and made a drum conversion to percussion.

 

[Nuthatch]

Be sure to clean the patent breech of any oil or fouling.

I forgot to do that last weekend & paid for it. I was trying to demonstrate to my mostly non-shooting family how to use a flintlock so they could try it. But in having to setup for kids & such, I forgot to swab out the breech. *click, puff*, *click, puff*... It just bolstered my wife's claim that my flintlocks are "useless weapons."

Took some field work to clear out the oil-soaked powder out of breech. I think the damage to my flintlock's reputation with the family is permanent.

 

[bronko220002]

The TC locks were not reliable. My first ML was a TC flintlock. The geometry between the cock and frizzen is wrong. IT will eat flints for lunch. The frizzen was made with only a thin case hardening. Once that breaks through it will not spark. The RPL locks are not drop in.

I shot my first ML buck with my TC flinter. Good thing he was oblivious. It took three tries to get the rifle to fire.

I got tired of it and made a drum conversion to percussion.

I just rehardened 4 frizzens yesterday. It took me about 1/2 hour. I used the stuff packaged by TOW. Forget the name off hand. Installed one of the newly hardened frizzens and turned off the lights to check for spark and the shower of them was really impressive.

 

[MtHoot]

This was my own fault. I got a tc hawken flinter a few weeks ago and it appeared in great shape. Bore was clean and shiny but I gave it a thorough swabbing anyway. Today I decided to take it out and sight it in. It is to serve as a back up rifle to my .58 flinter for the PA primitive season.
Well the first attempt was a flash in the pan. OK I thought. Maybe some oil in the vent hole. Reprimed the pan and boom. Second shot a good deal of delay and boom again. (Before you say anything I know not to overfill the pan). After that it was hit or miss. No flash, flash in the pan, delayed firing. Some of this could have been the high humidity even tho I was wiping frizzen and flint after every shot.
Any how...I was able to get it shooting close and figured I had enough frustration for one day. When I got home I checked for spark in a dark room and the English flint didn't produce many.
I cleaned up the rifle and replaced the well worn frizzen with a new one. Sparking good now. Next was the vent liner. It was an original T/C. That went in the trash and a new RMC liner installed.
Hopefully things will go smoother next outing.

Are those liners from rmc for TC’s a perfect fit or do they need to be filed?

 

[BoomStick]

Are those liners from rmc for TC’s a perfect fit or do they need to be filed?

The RMC liners sit flush with no filing required.

 

[MtHoot]

Are those liners from rmc for TC’s a perfect fit or do they need to be filed?

The RMC liners sit flush with no filing required.

Thanks for the reply. Keep it in mind by chance do you know the hole size?

 

[MtHoot]

Thanks for the reply. Keep it in mind by chance do you know the hole size?

I am more concerned depth ie: protruding into the bore?

 

[Notchy Bob]

I am more concerned depth ie: protruding into the bore?

The vent liner would screw into the patent breech on a T/C. No protrusion into the bore.

i understand where you’re coming from, though. I had a flintlock longrifle from a very well-known contemporary maker. This rifle had a 7/8” by .50 caliber barrel. With a barrel wall thickness of less than .190” there was absolutely no reason for a vent liner, and I specifically requested that he not install one. Well, he put a White Lightning’ liner in anyway, stating that I “would not be happy without it.” To add injury to insult, he left the liner full length, protruding into the bore. It created a fouling trap that was near impossible to clean. I ended up selling the rifle (with full disclosure) for this and a couple of other issues.

Notchy Bob

 

[MtHoot]

The vent liner would screw into the patent breech on a T/C. No protrusion into the bore.

i understand where you’re coming from, though. I had a flintlock longrifle from a very well-known contemporary maker. This rifle had a 7/8” by .50 caliber barrel. With a barrel wall thickness of less than .190” there was absolutely no reason for a vent liner, and I specifically requested that he not install one. Well, he put a White Lightning’ liner in anyway, stating that I “would not be happy without it.” To add injury to insult, he left the liner full length, protruding into the bore. It created a fouling trap that was near impossible to clean. I ended up selling the rifle (with full disclosure) for this and a couple of other issues.

Notchy Bob

That’s exactly what I am talking about. My 54 also from a well known, has a liner thar protrudes into the bore a bit. It really doesn’t effect anything cleaning etc doesn’t present a problem, it doesn’t shred patches etc. It is one of those little things that bothers me. My Other pole is a TCA 59 cal in kit I purchased from gander mt in ‘79 and is still my daily hunter here in Pa large game. Have been thinking of replacing the liner after 45 years. Lots of powder through this ole gal. But thats why I was asking. Thanks

 

[MtHoot]

That’s exactly what I am talking about. My 54 also from a well known, has a liner thar protrudes into the bore a bit. It really doesn’t effect anything cleaning etc doesn’t present a problem, it doesn’t shred patches etc. It is one of those little things that bothers me. My Other pole is a TCA 59 cal in kit I purchased from gander mt in ‘79 and is still my daily hunter here in Pa large game. Have been thinking of replacing the liner after 45 years. Lots of powder through this ole gal. But thats why I was asking. Thanks

* that protrude, and* 50 cal not 59. Damn spellcheck

 

[WonkyEye]

The TC locks were not reliable. My first ML was a TC flintlock. The geometry between the cock and frizzen is wrong. IT will eat flints for lunch. The frizzen was made with only a thin case hardening. Once that breaks through it will not spark. The RPL locks are not drop in.

I shot my first ML buck with my TC flinter. Good thing he was oblivious. It took three tries to get the rifle to fire.

I got tired of it and made a drum conversion to percussion.

I had a lot of issues with my TC also, same as you described. They changed the lock geometry at some point, gave it a new taller cock, and apparently a better frizzen. I found the new style cock at the gun works, but it wasn't an exact fit for the old tumbler, needed some work to make the hole smaller. A new Lyman frizzen is much higher quality and a better angle , but needs some stoning to fit. After that work, the lock throws amazing showers of sparks, a quality English flint can easily last over 100 strikes with a bit of knapping. Compare that to a shattered flint after a dozen strikes before making the changes.


It's a long story, but I wound up also buying and fitting the L&R RPL lock also. It's a very good lock, but it wasn't perfect as new. I had to do some work to the lock itself, the tumbler had a high point that caused the hammer to be skewed. Long story short, there was a lot of fitting, fine adjustment and polishing involved. Their support offered me to send it back , but I'm a tinkerer and decided to do it myself. It is an amazing upgrade though, after working out the kinks it's a great lock.

 

[WonkyEye]

Proof that a TC can be a great sparker.

https://imgur.com/gallery/5boOTfE

And another, same lock, different flint
https://imgur.com/gallery/WSSPrBc

 

[MtHoot]

I forgot to do that last weekend & paid for it. I was trying to demonstrate to my mostly non-shooting family how to use a flintlock so they could try it. But in having to setup for kids & such, I forgot to swab out the breech. *click, puff*, *click, puff*... It just bolstered my wife's claim that my flintlocks are "useless weapons."

Took some field work to clear out the oil-soaked powder out of breech. I think the damage to my flintlock's reputation with the family is permanent.

So as usual, nothing personal, it’s your own fault, not the T/C to blame…..

 

[MtHoot]

That’s exactly what I am talking about. My 54 also from a well known, has a liner thar protrudes into the bore a bit. It really doesn’t effect anything cleaning etc doesn’t present a problem, it doesn’t shred patches etc. It is one of those little things that bothers me. My Other pole is a TCA 59 cal in kit I purchased from gander mt in ‘79 and is still my daily hunter here in Pa large game. Have been thinking of replacing the liner after 45 years. Lots of powder through this ole gal. But thats why I was asking. Thanks

I am re- reading my post, because of a new post/ reply from another member. Unfortunately I mistakenly posted my T/C as a 59 cal, when it is obviously a 50 cal. Sorry people!

 

[MtHoot]

Proof that a TC can be a great sparker.

https://imgur.com/gallery/5boOTfE

And another, same lock, different flint
https://imgur.com/gallery/5boOTfE

Proof that a TC can be a great sparker.

https://imgur.com/gallery/5boOTfE

And another, same lock, different flint
https://imgur.com/gallery/5boOTfE

My rifle is absolutely % original. I couldn’t even imagine how much powder has gone down this barrel and made smoke over 42 some years since I built it. Well over a bakers dozen of whitetail have been harvested with this heavily used tool. I have gone through quite a few flints over time, and the friz is worn well, but not worn out! It was making me a bit nervous last year for no reason and I thought of replacing the whole thing with an L&R… but she kept on sparking as well as ever… maybe I just got lucky or maybe I was just religious with maintenance. That being said I was at the range this morning ( happy Easter to All), and ran 16 loads through with no issues! I am satisfied…