Traditions Pennsylvania Flintlock issues.

[Archer 756]

Why vent liner just drill vent, .060 to .078, as other rifles have been done this way very simple

 

[sb 54 cal.]

With the breech traditions has I find it easier to put a little 4f in to get into breech. Just what I do.

 

[SDSmlf]

Why vent liner just drill vent, .060 to .078, as other rifles have been done this way very simple

Traditions has a tapped hole for their vent liner. Would have to plug before drilling new vent hole. Not all that difficult, but for most, easier to deepen the pan on the lock.

 

[andy52]

Why vent liner just drill vent, .060 to .078, as other rifles have been done this way very simple

The vent hole is obstructed by the pan by about 30%, I don't think drilling it larger will help much it would still be too low.

 

[andy52]

Traditions has a tapped hole for their vent liner. Would have to plug before drilling new vent hole. Not all that difficult, but for most, easier to deepen the pan on the lock.

Correct, to drill a blank venthole liner off center requires at least a little skill and good tools.

 

[Archer 756]

YES deepen pan first than enlarge vent hole

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Patent breech, a sub-caliber bore within the main bore, so use 3Fg as the main charge and ‘slap’ the breech on the opposite side of the lock, hand towards the lock side, BEFORE you seat the roundball. This helps to fill that patent breech.

Also agree to grind the pan deeper …

 

[bang]

Question? wouldn't I have to remove metal from the upper tang if I shim it? At least if I want a good metal-to-wood fit.

If it's preloaded that much then you probably have other issues too. May not be any preload. I would at least check it. With a precut lock mortise it seems it should not have positioned the barrel that low. If you do gain movement in good way 0.010-0.020 is still better than what you have and less grinding on the pan.
Another thing to check is that the tang is not set twisted to the right.
IMO.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Also when you clean the barrel use a .22 or .223 bore brush to clean the patent breech to get old fouling and oil out. I also but a thin piece of old tshirt patch in the brush to get the oil and fouling out. I would also run a little alcohol down the barrel and out the touch hole the next time you go shooting to make sure there is no oil residue to catch fouling. I also smoothed the frizzen spring and polished the frizzen where it rests on the spring. All these things made my .32 Shenandoah much more reliable. When I first got it I could shoot about 3 shots and then have all kinds of flash in the pan. I also opened up the touch hole to 1/16”.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

When I opened up the flash hole on my gun…it went from Ka-Boom…to BOOM. Quite a nice difference.

 

[Will king]

I bought a Traditions Pennsylvania Flintlock a few weeks back and took it out for a test drive yesterday. Sparked and flash just several times but boom. Picked it a few times still no boom, well maybe there was some oil in the breech I didn't get out. So I pulled the ball and charge and ran patches until they were totally clean. Loaded it up again flash but no boom. Now I needed to have a look-see, cleaned out the pan took my small flashlight out, you have to be kidding the pan is dividing the vent hole in half. There's probably no way I'll get this gun to fire as is. So the fixes are, to take some material out of the pan so it's lower than the vent or get a new vent liner that's undrilled and drill it off center. don't which I'll do yet.

I agree with the others, remove the lock and deepen the pan. You don't need a lot of powder for a good flash off but the flash hole should be above the powder charge a tad. Disassemble the lock when doing it to avoid metal shavings also to avoid the possibility of heating the springs and changing the temper of them from the heat of grinding out the pan

 

[Buckskinquin]

Sold as used but I don't think it was used much if at all. There are a few nicks on the barrel where someone used a flint that was too large.

Any way to remove (unscrew) the flash hole? Agree with grinding the pan a bit with lock removed, but you’ve got be sure the entire flash channel is clear. Know anyone with an endoscope? That’s the easiest way to help diagnose a problem. Not sure of Traditions breech configuration, but if it’s a patent breech, you’ve got to get it cleaned out.

 

[andy52]

Any way to remove (unscrew) the flash hole? Agree with grinding the pan a bit with lock removed, but you’ve got be sure the entire flash channel is clear. Know anyone with an endoscope? That’s the easiest way to help diagnose a problem. Not sure of Traditions breech configuration, but if it’s a patent breech, you’ve got to get it cleaned out.

The vent liner is threaded so yes I could remove it. I have an endoscope the breech area looks fine inside. There's a thread somewhere here that Zonie posted that shows all current breech configurations.

 

[hanshi]

The liner and vent hole are too low to be reliable. Easiest cure is to grind the pan deeper and expose the vent hole. And every gun I've ever owned worked excellently after I drilled the vent hole to 1/16". And don't fill the pan with prime as that slows ignition. About 3 grains is all you need. Of course in the bush that's virtually impossible to gauge. The best bet is a little brass primer with a spout that delivers three grains of 4F every time you push on the pan. If you need more just push it twice or get a larger primer.

 

[Howard Pippin]

I think your problem would be quite easily solved by shimming the tang to raise the back of the barrel enough to put the hole above the pan. It will change your sight picture, but that's quite easily rectified with different sights. I solved the same problem on my Rifle by just doing that.
Squint

 

[Kmino]

I feel your pain. I bought my first and last traditions firearm. Very disappointing

 

[SDSmlf]

I think your problem would be quite easily solved by shimming the tang to raise the back of the barrel enough to put the hole above the pan. It will change your sight picture, but that's quite easily rectified with different sights. I solved the same problem on my Rifle by just doing that.
Squint

While shimming the tang would move the vent liner hole hole up relative to the pan, the potential .060” to .100” shimming would raise the entire barrel at the breech end leaving a gap between the barrel and the tang would be proud of the wood. Guess one could bed the barrel and tang with something like Acraglas and remove metal from the tang and refinish it…… Or remove a little material from the pan.

 

[dgracia]

Don't know if the photos will help any but here you go.View attachment 150274 View attachment 150275

I have one of those rifles and that is NOT the original touch hole (vent). It looks like a white lightning vent liner by Chambers and it looks like the TH is covered up entirely by the pan, which is why it won't fire. Ideally you want the touch hole at the middle of the pan (left to right) right at the top or about slightly above the pan. Here's a photo of mine. Notice that the vent liner is a screw in liner that can be removed and replaced just using a screwdriver. Also, notice the placement of it. Ideally the vent hole would be up just a tiny bit more perhaps 1/16th of an inch or so in comparison to the pan. Because I had to take the picture at an angle to get it over the flashguard, there's a shadow over the hole itself. That liner is coned on the inside down to the actual hole. I would also recommend that you take a dremel to get that pan opening down quite a bit to expose the touch hole, but I wouldn't recommend drilling the hole bigger until you've tried it without drilling it.

Also, if you start drilling out that touch hole, be aware that that rifle uses a patent breech and not a normal breech and drilling it too much could ruin it. Basically the vent hole goes into a chamber directly behind the breech and a small channel goes from there into the middle of the breech. This supposedly gave a more complete and even burn that having the flash come in from the side. Personally, I prefer the normal breech by far to the patent breech.

The lock they use on these is actually a pistol-sized lock and it can be pretty picky to get it to work right. It actually takes very little powder to make it flash and fire the main charge. I found this lock worked best if I filled it half full, closed the frizzen and then quickly snapped my wrist to the right to move the powder to the far edge of the pan. This left an empty space next to the vent hole for the flash to instantaneously cover and there was no discernible delay in firing. If you overfill the pan on this lock you will get the dreaded "shhhhhhhhhh-boom!" because it has to burn down through the powder until it gets to the vent to finally ignite the main charge. This lock uses the 5/8" x 5/8" flints and if you use the 5/8" wide x 3/4" long flints you will continually smash the edge of your flint. So be sure you get the 5/8" x 5/8" flints.

To get excellent flint life out of these you need to set your flint up so that it touches your frizzen at a 55° to 60° angle. If you make the angle too low, it will smash the tip of your flint and you'll get very little life out of them. If you make the angle too big, it will hit the frizzen back behind the tip and will knock off a chunk of flint from the underside. It's really the Goldilocks effect. Here's an illustration of the angle you want it to hit the frizzen. To check it, leave the frizzen down with the pan closed and slowly lower the cock until it touches the face of the frizzen. If it hits the frizzen at this angle it will make a slicing motion across the face showering the pan with sparks; will last up to or over 100-shots, and will actually be self knapping.:

Now, another thing I should point out about this rifle. If you lean your head over the top of the stock to line up the sights, the recoil will smash that Roman Nose of the stock right into your cheek causing a nice bruise under your eye. To avoid that you can do a couple of different things. One is to move your head farther back on the stock so you're not pressing your cheek over the top to align the sights. Two you can use an old shotgunner's trick and just turn your nose against the stock allowing you to align the sight from the corner of your eye so the recoil slides it back along your cheek instead of slamming it into it.

One more thing that I will caution you of about that rifle - the ramrod is held in place with a ramrod retaining spring (leaf-type spring) that loops around the front lock bolt. DO NOT remove the front lock bolt or that spring will fall into the ramrod channel and you'll have to remove the barrel to get it out...ask me how I know. I had that happen often enough that I decided to pin that leaf spring in place. So I drilled a hole a little in front of the lock and pinned it in place. Then I would just rub one of those wood-filler crayons in walnut over it to hide it. Then I didn't have to worry about keeping the lock bolt in place anymore. I've scraped that out of the hole so you can see it more easily.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I have one of those rifles and that is NOT the original touch hole (vent). It looks like a white lightning vent liner by Chambers and it looks like the TH is covered up entirely by the pan, which is why it won't fire. Ideally you want the touch hole at the middle of the pan (left to right) right at the top or about slightly above the pan. Here's a photo of mine. Notice that the vent liner is a screw in liner that can be removed and replaced just using a screwdriver. Also, notice the placement of it. Ideally the vent hole would be up just a tiny bit more perhaps 1/16th of an inch or so in comparison to the pan. Because I had to take the picture at an angle to get it over the flashguard, there's a shadow over the hole itself. That liner is coned on the inside down to the actual hole. I would also recommend that you take a dremel to get that pan opening down quite a bit to expose the touch hole, but I wouldn't recommend drilling the hole bigger until you've tried it without drilling it.

Also, if you start drilling out that touch hole, be aware that that rifle uses a patent breech and not a normal breech and drilling it too much could ruin it. Basically the vent hole goes into a chamber directly behind the breech and a small channel goes from there into the middle of the breech. This supposedly gave a more complete and even burn that having the flash come in from the side. Personally, I prefer the normal breech by far to the patent breech.


View attachment 150490

The lock they use on these is actually a pistol-sized lock and it can be pretty picky to get it to work right. It actually takes very little powder to make it flash and fire the main charge. I found this lock worked best if I filled it half full, closed the frizzen and then quickly snapped my wrist to the right to move the powder to the far edge of the pan. This left an empty space next to the vent hole for the flash to instantaneously cover and there was no discernible delay in firing. If you overfill the pan on this lock you will get the dreaded "shhhhhhhhhh-boom!" because it has to burn down through the powder until it gets to the vent to finally ignite the main charge. This lock uses the 5/8" x 5/8" flints and if you use the 5/8" wide x 3/4" long flints you will continually smash the edge of your flint. So be sure you get the 5/8" x 5/8" flints.

To get excellent flint life out of these you need to set your flint up so that it touches your frizzen at a 55° to 60° angle. If you make the angle too low, it will smash the tip of your flint and you'll get very little life out of them. If you make the angle too big, it will hit the frizzen back behind the tip and will knock off a chunk of flint from the underside. It's really the Goldilocks effect. Here's an illustration of the angle you want it to hit the frizzen. To check it, leave the frizzen down with the pan closed and slowly lower the cock until it touches the face of the frizzen. If it hits the frizzen at this angle it will make a slicing motion across the face showering the pan with sparks; will last up to or over 100-shots, and will actually be self knapping.:

View attachment 150492

Now, another thing I should point out about this rifle. If you lean your head over the top of the stock to line up the sights, the recoil will smash that Roman Nose of the stock right into your cheek causing a nice bruise under your eye. To avoid that you can do a couple of different things. One is to move your head farther back on the stock so you're not pressing your cheek over the top to align the sights. Two you can use an old shotgunner's trick and just turn your nose against the stock allowing you to align the sight from the corner of your eye so the recoil slides it back along your cheek instead of slamming it into it.

One more thing that I will caution you of about that rifle - the ramrod is held in place with a ramrod retaining spring (leaf-type spring) that loops around the front lock bolt. DO NOT remove the front lock bolt or that spring will fall into the ramrod channel and you'll have to remove the barrel to get it out...ask me how I know. I had that happen often enough that I decided to pin that leaf spring in place. So I drilled a hole a little in front of the lock and pinned it in place. Then I would just rub one of those wood-filler crayons in walnut over it to hide it. Then I didn't have to worry about keeping the lock bolt in place anymore. I've scraped that out of the hole so you can see it more easily.

View attachment 150503

This is one of the most excellent informational posts I have ever read, about flintlock muzzleloaders

Edited to add: I’ve read this 3 times. In an hour I’m going to read it again.

 

[sturmkatze]

Don't know if the photos will help any but here you go.View attachment 150274 View attachment 150275

My first was like that. Use a dremel to lower pan