Patch vs cottton mop

[Enfield 1858]

I've only shot my .58 cal (.577) twice the first time I used a damp patch between shoots the second time I used a cotton mop or swab that I got wet then squeezed the water out of. The mop was more effective and easier to use.
Anyone else use a cotton mop instead of a patch?

 

[jtmattison]

I prefer a patch because mops can leave too much moisture in the breech.

HD

 

[Enfield 1858]

Hmmm, could that be the reason why a couple of the caps didn't fire. I was keeping the caps in a plastic bottle instead of the tin they came in. Maybe I should put them back in the tin with one of those moisture removing pack things.

 

[silverfox]

I think you have another problem with the caps not fireing. Even if your mop is wet it shouldn't be wet enough to pass moisture though the nipple and kill the cap when you are at a target range shooting. It takes a lot of water to kill a musket cap. Are your caps seating on the nipple square and all the way down? Is the hammer hitting them square? Do they fire on the second or third hammer fall?
I shoot NSSA and sometimes shoot 30 shots without running anything down the barrel but powder and bullets and don't remember having misfires.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

if you use a dry patch it can get stuck when the patch is the same thickness you use to patch the ball with (greased patch). I use a dry patch of less thickness than patch for ball to wipe between shots. it seems like it tightens my groups. I'm apprehensive about wet patching between shots. some do that I suppose but it can leave moisture in the chamber.

 

[rafterob]

Depending on your jag, a dry patch can seize your ramrod at the bottom of the bore. I have found a spit patch works good, not soaked but just dampened.

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu have to have a properly sized cleaning jag for your gun. For most rifles, the loading jag you use will work, but sometimes its too close in diameter to the actual bore diameter.

Use flannel( cotton) cleaning patches. Don't Soak a cleaning patch to the point it is dripping. Just dampen it with spit, or your liquid cleaner. The guys here who take spray bottles of household, and window cleaners, have a great idea, even when its not particularly PC!

You may not be able to use it when shooting a primitive match, or a seneca run, but how many shots do you fire in those conditions? I have an antique medicine bottle- only 2 oz., made of glass- that I use with my liquid cleaner for those PC matches. The judges like to see that cork stopper, BTW.

I routinely use both a damp patch to pull the residue OUT, and follow with a dry patch to remove the moisture left by the damp patch. There is always enough moisture in the barrel to prevent the first dry patch from sticking. And, I test the patch by pulling back on it after its gone into the barrel only 4-10 inches, just to make sure its not going to "stick". I then, wipe it down the barrel in stages, rather than running it all the way to the breechplug before checking it again.

I have found that I WILL HAVE problems if I have to use a second dry cleaning patch in the barrel, so I usually don't. I determine whether I need to use a second patch by the FEEL of the first dry patch in the lands and grooves as I am pulling it out of the barrel. If the bore feels dirty, and " sticky", I will dampen another patch, and repeat the damp/dry patch cycle over again. When the barrel is truly clean I usually don't have any problems with a second dry patch.

The same issues arise when cleaning any smoothbore, but the diameter of the cleaning jag becomes even more critical, because there are no grooves in those barrels to let the cleaning patch move into. You want the diameter of the cleaning jag to be .030 larger than your actual bore diameter, to handle cleaning patches. I also like to slope the rings so that the back side of each ring catches the fabric of the cleaning patch.


DO NOT USE the same patches that you wrap around the ball when shooting a PRB in your rifle, for cleaning. They generally are too stiff for that, and will not go down into the grooves deep enough to remove the crud.

DO clean between each shot, if you are trying to shoot for accuracy. In the field, you can cut corners, because you are not going to fire that many shots at game in a single setting. If you can go 5 rounds before the balls begin to stick, and not lose accuracy, then clean every 5 shots in the field. I personally clean after every shot, even in the field, although I know I can fire several shots without cleaning, if needed. :thumbsup:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I use old 100% cotton t-shirt material for dry-wipe patches. for patching RB's I use a very tight weave 100% cotton material I got yards of when testing a machine I helped build years ago that was used for makeing laminated medical emergency wound dressings. we tested it by running 100 yards of material through it and I scavenged a large cardboard box full of the stuff ( BP packrat's dream). best patch material I've ever used and I also use it to polish painted lacquer surfaces and brass. but I found out the hard way that it is too tight a fit to dry wipe with. had to pour water atop stuck cleaning patches frequently to free them up and remove. the thin stuff does good, balls up on the jag and 'drags' fouling out with it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Most of that old T-shirt cotton will measure at about .010" inch. The cotton flannel patches I buy by the thousand( 3 inch squares) are a bit thicker than old t-shirts,, but less than .015". I use .015" precut patches to wrap the ball in my rifle. I would never use them to clean the barrel, and I learned that the hard way, too! :rotf: :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have a cotton swab for my 12 gauge, but I don't use them in my rifle. They get dirty quickly, and are a problem to clean. If you soak them, they put way too much fluid down the barrel, even when you try to ring them out before putting them down the barrel. That can require removing the nipple, and using pipe cleaners to get the back of the gun dry again.

If you have the " Nock" type breechplug, with the flash channel, and reduced-diameter powder chamber in the plug, you may also have to use a smaller brush or jag to dry out that chamber, again.

My 12 gauge swab does a great job of pushing cleaning patches, with cleaning solvents or fluid on the patches, down my smoothbore barrels. To clean the swab, I wash it with liquid detergent, several times, and let it soak in a glass with soap and water over night. IF I think of it, I might just throw my swab in the dishwasher to see if that will get it cleaner.
:thumbsup:

 

[silverfox]

Paul I hope you meant .030 smaller than bore dia. for you cleaning jag. I can't get anything larger than bore dia down my barrels. :rotf: :hmm:
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[Black Hand]

Why are you swabbing between shots? It isn't really necessary.....

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yes, I meant smaller. Thank you for catching that mistake. Just proves that I am human. Really. :rotf: :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Swabs are TOO soft to use for cleaning between shot. But, If you are wanting the best accuracy out of your gun, cleaning IS necessary. Just use a cleaning patch, and use your jag, not a swab. The purpose of cleaning is to pull the crud and residue OUT of the barrel. Swabs tend to either over ride the crud, or push it down the barrel in front of the swab.

If you wet a swab sufficiently that it will " melt " the crud, so it can soak into the swab, all that moisture leaves a wet mess at the back of the barrel, and can foul the next powder charge unless the barrel is dried. I don't see any time advantage in using a swab for that kind of cleaning, over using a cleaning patch and cleaning jag.

If you mean " its not necessary to fire the next shot" then you are right provided the relative humidity is not high, and the air temperature low. In those conditions, the barrel " sweats" or condenses moisture in the bore from the wet air, and that can foul the next powder charge sufficiently that it won't fire.

 

[steelerzzz]

YOu have to have a properly sized cleaning jag for your gun. For most rifles, the loading jag you use will work, but sometimes its too close in diameter to the actual bore diameter.

Use flannel( cotton) cleaning patches. Don't Soak a cleaning patch to the point it is dripping. Just dampen it with spit, or your liquid cleaner. The guys here who take spray bottles of household, and window cleaners, have a great idea, even when its not particularly PC!

You may not be able to use it when shooting a primitive match, or a seneca run, but how many shots do you fire in those conditions? I have an antique medicine bottle- only 2 oz., made of glass- that I use with my liquid cleaner for those PC matches. The judges like to see that cork stopper, BTW.

I routinely use both a damp patch to pull the residue OUT, and follow with a dry patch to remove the moisture left by the damp patch. There is always enough moisture in the barrel to prevent the first dry patch from sticking. And, I test the patch by pulling back on it after its gone into the barrel only 4-10 inches, just to make sure its not going to "stick". I then, wipe it down the barrel in stages, rather than running it all the way to the breechplug before checking it again.

I have found that I WILL HAVE problems if I have to use a second dry cleaning patch in the barrel, so I usually don't. I determine whether I need to use a second patch by the FEEL of the first dry patch in the lands and grooves as I am pulling it out of the barrel. If the bore feels dirty, and " sticky", I will dampen another patch, and repeat the damp/dry patch cycle over again. When the barrel is truly clean I usually don't have any problems with a second dry patch.

The same issues arise when cleaning any smoothbore, but the diameter of the cleaning jag becomes even more critical, because there are no grooves in those barrels to let the cleaning patch move into. You want the diameter of the cleaning jag to be .030 larger than your actual bore diameter, to handle cleaning patches. I also like to slope the rings so that the back side of each ring catches the fabric of the cleaning patch.


DO NOT USE the same patches that you wrap around the ball when shooting a PRB in your rifle, for cleaning. They generally are too stiff for that, and will not go down into the grooves deep enough to remove the crud.

DO clean between each shot, if you are trying to shoot for accuracy. In the field, you can cut corners, because you are not going to fire that many shots at game in a single setting. If you can go 5 rounds before the balls begin to stick, and not lose accuracy, then clean every 5 shots in the field. I personally clean after every shot, even in the field, although I know I can fire several shots without cleaning, if needed. :thumbsup:

On one of my guns,(54cal. Lyman) the cleaning patches I use(same patches for all my guns)are too loose when used with the loading jag.I have to use two patches together..and that seems to work fine. Do you think I should get a little bigger diameter loading/cleaning jag or use thicker patches for this gun?

 

[paulvallandigham]

I don't know if you need a bigger loading jag. It sounds like you need a bigger ' Cleaning " jag.You need to measure the bore, with calipers, and then get a cleaning jag that is designed for that purpose. YOu should not have to put two patches on a jag to get one of them to clean the grooves.

I leave my cleaning jag on my Range rod, which is a one-piece stainless steel rod. The jag on my hickory ramrod in the gun is only used for loading, in the field. My Range rod comes with a synthetic muzzle protector, and I use it exclusively for cleaning.The muzzle protector protects the crown of the muzzle, and keeps the grit and residue I am pulling out of the barrel away from the crown. I wipe the range rod clean of crud after each use.

Its okay to own two different jags for the same gun. Its also okay to own two different rods for the same gun. If you are going to do any amount of target shooting, a range rod comes in very handy, for both loading and cleaning the gun.

 

[Rafsob]

Why are you swabbing between shots? It isn't really necessary.....

I understand what you are saying. If the right lube is used, then no swabbing is really necessary. But people are really worried that they must be as accurate as possible in duplicating the same field conditions that they think they must swab a barrel clean to do this. And this I can understand and must admit I do myself.

I think I got that right?!?

 

[paulvallandigham]

For caual plinking, and short range hunting, no cleaning between shots is usually needed. However, NO lube is going to help much when the relative humidity is very low, and the barrel is allowed to cool in cold temperatures. That is how crud is caked on the bore. Sometimes extra lube is all that is needed to " melt " that crud, and free up the bore to seat the ball down in the same place as the last shots. But, so many times, the only to deal with the crud ring in the barrel, is to use a wet lube and clean the barrel.

There is NO ONE RULE that applies in all weather conditions, or all across this continent concerning cleaning between shot. For the best accuracy, cleaning between shots does allow the gun to be loaded the exact same way for each shot. That is why target shooters do this. When you allow crud and residue to build up at the back of the barrel, you shorten the capacity of the barrel to hold powder, and the PRB, or conical, so that the PRB or conical has to be seated further out than it was several shots earlier. That changes the burning characteristics, the chamber pressure, the velocity, and in all probability the harmonics of the barrel enough to send the ball or conical to a different- no matter how small- POI. When you are shooting for the smallest group size, as target shooters often do, or shooting the long range target courses, everything matters, and that is why target shooters spend a lot of time cleaning their guns between shot.

PIck your poison- target shooting, or plinking and hunting, and clean your barrel accordingly.

The worst thing that will happen is that you stick a ball or conical partway down the barrel, and will have to either pull it, or soak the barrel with a liquid solvent until you can force the PRB or bullet down on the powder. You won't be the first shooter to have to do that. :rotf: :thumbsup: