Teflon as a patch lube?

[Ed C.]

I met a man at the range yesterday who was very accomplished in big bore long range (200-300 yard) bench shooting. His loading procedure was to spray patch material with teflon, let it dry. Use the thickest patches possible. Use the largest load possible to the point where the gun is throwing out unburnt powder. Then back off a little. With the low friction coefficient of the teflon patch supposedly you can attain a high RB velocity without excessively high pressures. Good for long ranges and combating winds. Then wipe twice with damp (water/dawn) swabs and then dry swab between shots. I don't shoot on that level. Too much swabbing for me but I am intrigued with the idea of using teflon. Anybody hear of this before or have used it? Could it be harmful in any way?

 

[Dutch7]

I’ll chime in Ed
I have personally used it and found it to be a very good product, pricey though. I haven’t used it in years since I stopped serious competition. At the time all the top guys and gals used it.
I shot a .400 ball with .018 Teflon ticking in a .40 rifle had to start the ball with a mallet but man that gun could shoot one hole.
This next part is unconfirmed- I heard the supplier that sprayed the Teflon had serious health problems from the process, again unconfirmed.

 

[Ed C.]

I’ll chime in Ed
I have personally used it and found it to be a very good product, pricey though. I haven’t used it in years since I stopped serious competition. At the time all the top guys and gals used it.
I shot a .400 ball with .018 Teflon ticking in a .40 rifle had to start the ball with a mallet but man that gun could shoot one hole.
This next part is unconfirmed- I heard the supplier that sprayed the Teflon had serious health problems from the process, again unconfirmed.

Thanks for the info. He also mentioned loading with a mallet.

 

[necchi]

If he is an accomplished Bench shooter, and local to you.
You should seek him out, befriend the man, share range time with him in any way possible and learn all you can from him.
Ignore all from here, and take note of what he shares with you.
Period.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Oh this is so cheating, I love it.
I have LSA from the 70s that has teflon in it.
Been lubing with it (modern) since the 70s.

My question is where does one get sheets of this?

 

[Nor Cal Mikie]

My only question about using Teflon is, what's left in the bore when burned?? BP is bad enough to clean.

 

[longcruise]

With the low friction coefficient of the teflon patch supposedly you can attain a high RB velocit..........

The Minute Man used to sell Teflon ticking but I haven't seen the website in a while. He may be the one with the health problems.

With all due respect to the fellow who was shooting Teflon and made this claim, more coefficient of friction will increase velocity. But, regardless, I'd not debate whether his methodology results in good scores.

 

[Dutch7]

My only question about using Teflon is, what's left in the bore when burned?? BP is bad enough to clean.

From my experience nothing remains, it’s a dry patch.

 

[Dutch7]

The Minute Man used to sell Teflon ticking but I haven't seen the website in a while. He may be the one with the health problems.

Yes that is the name, eastern Ohio

 

[Bad Karma]

The Minute Man used to sell Teflon ticking but I haven't seen the website in a while. He may be the one with the health problems.

With all due respect to the fellow who was shooting Teflon and made this claim, more coefficient of friction will increase velocity. But, regardless, I'd not debate whether his methodology results in good scores.

How do you feel about silk as a patch material? “good for another 20 yards!”

 

[Scota@4570]

Teflon and other dry patch schemes tend to leave smoldering patches downrange.

Whether your rifle will shoot best with teflon patches is not a sure thing. It needs to be tested.

I found the top accuracy tends to in the ball park of 5:1 Ballistol and water that is then allowed to dry. This is different way to do dry patches. You can vary the amount of oil and it will influence accuracy.

You must damp swab between shots with dry patches. How much of the solvent is now part of the patch lube when you do that? Is it still a dry patch? Should we fully clean and dry between shots for consistency?

It all became too much fussing for me. I now use damp moose milk patches for target work. I add a touch of industrial glass cleaner concentrate to the mix.

One question that comes up is about how slick a patch should be. If a patch is to slick the backpressure is less and the powder does not burn as clean. I found this to be the case with Jojoba oil. It loaded super easy and shot poorly. It was also hard to work with because my fingers we so slick. There seems to be tradeoffs.

 

[longcruise]

I found in my early shooting years using crisco that the amount and consistency of amount from shot to shot made a big difference in accuracy. So I've always applied that experience with the many many lubes I've tried. That has shown that just about any lube is good if applied sparingly and consistently so presently my philosophy is simple is better.

 

[springfield art]

Wouldn't that harden, the way plastic does when heated? Form a coating? I agree with 4570, there's often a bit too much fussing and using of modern materials in muzzle loading, but of course to each his own.

 

[oldwood]

Will pitch this into the info bin , for what it's worth. Have a friend from 1988 that was a Viet. era. Army sniper. (had the coolest southern drawl. ) He was perminantly cycled back to Germany at the end of the Viet. War. He was put in charge of the Army Special forces sniper weapon armory , (sniper weapons). Back then they were using the .308 Win. ctg. , and he would inspect , and maintain the rifles between practice sessions. His maintenance station was sent a 55 gal. drum of a new , teflon based rifle cleaning fluid to experiment with , to see if it could be effectively used on sniper weapons. He swabed the barrel of his personal Win. Mod. 70 .308 sniper arm with the fluid , and dryed the barrel over night. Out to the range next day and the precision sniper rifle was all over the paper , until the teflon was burnt out of the bore. Teflon is so slick , the rifling was ineffective at allowing the bullet to catch the rifling . He then went back to the shop , and as a joke , he teflon bore cleaner , swabed his sniper friends rifle bores , and invited them for a regular practice session next day. Naturally , w/o teflon in his bore , his rifle shot perfectly while his buddies rifles were accuracy poor. Oh , such bitc-ing and swearing , he enjoyed the entertainment , before he told them they were part of an official teflon bore cleaner test experiment. Of course , all went back to the range to do an official accuracy check , and some practice , to finish the experiment , and all was good. Moral of the story , high pressure rounds , keep teflon out of the bore , too slick.

 

[springfield art]

Will pitch this into the info bin , for what it's worth. Have a friend from 1988 that was a Viet. era. Army sniper. (had the coolest southern drawl. ) He was perminantly cycled back to Germany at the end of the Viet. War. He was put in charge of the Army Special forces sniper weapon armory , (sniper weapons). Back then they were using the .308 Win. ctg. , and he would inspect , and maintain the rifles between practice sessions. His maintenance station was sent a 55 gal. drum of a new , teflon based rifle cleaning fluid to experiment with , to see if it could be effectively used on sniper weapons. He swabed the barrel of his personal Win. Mod. 70 .308 sniper arm with the fluid , and dryed the barrel over night. Out to the range next day and the precision sniper rifle was all over the paper , until the teflon was burnt out of the bore. Teflon is so slick , the rifling was ineffective at allowing the bullet to catch the rifling . He then went back to the shop , and as a joke , he teflon bore cleaner , swabed his sniper friends rifle bores , and invited them for a regular practice session next day. Naturally , w/o teflon in his bore , his rifle shot perfectly while his buddies rifles were accuracy poor. Oh , such bitc-ing and swearing , he enjoyed the entertainment , before he told them they were part of an official teflon bore cleaner test experiment. Of course , all went back to the range to do an official accuracy check , and some practice , to finish the experiment , and all was good. Moral of the story , high pressure rounds , keep teflon out of the bore , too slick.

Not surprised! BTW, when the War on Terror came about, they took old M-14's out of storage for sniping and shipboard Marines because the .308 is a good 600 ctg. whereas the 5.56 is really more of a 300 yd. ctg. generally speaking.

 

[Scota@4570]

I tried the moly bore and bullet treatment with my service rifle target ammunition. Accuracy was badly impaired, I had many weird wild fliers. It appeared to be to slick and pressures became erratic. I cleaned that junk out of the bore and tumbled it off the unused bullets. Accuracy then became the normal sub moa again.

 

[springfield art]

Yes, and we all know that gunsmiths tell us never to use WD-40 on a gun, as it builds up a coating; shotguns in particular will gum up from guy's innocently spraying WD all over them.

 

[Mulebrain]

My 32lb heavy bench target rifle calls for teflon patching. Cabin Creek may carry it, however they didn't have the thickness I needed.

 

[Ed C.]

If he is an accomplished Bench shooter, and local to you.
You should seek him out, befriend the man, share range time with him in any way possible and learn all you can from him.
Ignore all from here, and take note of what he shares with you.
Period.

I'm staying in contact with him but I also have learned to value the opinions of many of the members here. As with any internet advice it is a matter of recognizing what is sound advice. I'm an old man but only a few years into BP so the hundreds of years experience on this forum has helped put me on a fast track into the hobby.

 

[Ed C.]

Oh this is so cheating, I love it.
I have LSA from the 70s that has teflon in it.
Been lubing with it (modern) since the 70s.

My question is where does one get sheets of this?

He sprays the ticking with Dupont Spray teflon and lets them dry.