Lyman Deerstalker Ignition Woes

[Rob Templer]

I have a stainless Lyman Deerstalker but I have never been happy with the ignition. Hangfires and plain old failure to ignite problems. I have actually shot few Fallow bucks with it so when it works it really works but I want to get it igniting 100%
Now I am in Australia so don't have access to different percussion caps to try etc. I'm using the Remington caps and these are the best of the lot that I have tried. The CCI ones dont even fit over the nipple so I assume they are for revolvers
I have upgraded the nipple as someone suggested, from the normal Lyman nipple.
Was thinking about taking it to my gunsmith. Could they increase the size of the flash hole and would that work?
Can I convert it to take shotgun primers? Is that the solution and does anyone sell those converters that will fit a Lyman.
I use Great Plains bullets and it shoots these quite well, but they are a super tight fit in the barrel. Is there another projectile for hunting worth trying? It don't like round ball at all.
It's a great rifle I just wish I could resolve it's ignition issue.

 

[William Lincoln]

What powder are you using? Are you using a substitute? If
so which one? That could be the issue.

 

[Howie1968]

When i have these issues i try real black, i do shoot alot of synthetic black powder substitutes i also try a hotter cap. On factory nipples i reduce the cone to where caps seat fully. A problem ive had with lymans is there cones on the nipple are bigger which prevents the cap being seated causing a no fire on the second try it goes off. If that dont work try a musket nipple and rws musket caps they work great out of my rifles

 

[Grenadier1758]

The first thought is to know what powder you are using. Most synthetic (actually all) powders have a higher ignition temperature and hang fires are the result. To that end hang fires and failure to ignite are common problems with the factory nipple and normal caps.

Lets start with the basics. I usually start my trouble shooting procedures at the very basic level. This way I get familiar with all the quirks of the situation. Don't stop until you are done unless you uncover the absolutely only issue that is causing the problem. Make sure the flash channel is clear. Run a pipe cleaner from the nipple seat to the powder chamber. The Lyman parts diagram implies that there is a clean out plug. Look down from the nipple seat to verify there is nothing in the flash channel blocking the flash path. Remove the clean out plug and clean that out through to the ignition chamber. Shine a light through the flash channel and look down the barrel for the light reflection to be sure there is no obstruction in the chambered breech. Clean the barrel and chambered breech with a good flush any way. When putting the rifle back together and even though the rifle barrel is stainless steel, use a never seize grease or choke tube grease on the threads.

If you are using a synthetic powder and black powder is not available, then try the #11 magnum caps. Your nipples are sized for #11 caps. CCI #10 caps will be too small. If real black powder is available, try real black powder. The lower ignition temperature greatly reduces the incidence of hang fires. There are nipples designed to bring more heat to the ignition chamber such as the Hot Shot, Spitfire or Red Hot nipple. A better choice than a shotgun (209 primer) and its specialized (PITA) nipple, is the musket nipple and RWS musket caps. These are available, but probably difficult in Australia. The hammer will have to be aligned with the musket nipple for reliable ignition making this a less than install and use option.

Too many people have good results with their Deerstalkers to think that enlarging the flash channel will be beneficial. But if you have a gunsmith enlarge the flash channel and replace the clean out screw, have the chambered breech enlarged if possible. Remember, the clean out screw and the nipple can not interfere. More powder in the breech will put more powder in the path of the flame through the flash channel.

The patched round ball should be effective on Fallow deer. You didn't say what the caliber of your rifle is, so I can't make a recommendation on ball and patch.

 

[bubba.50]

First thing l’d do is get a 38cal brush and clean the ‘combustion chamber’ as TC used to call it of any fouling then give it a serious cleaning. And afterwards be sure to not let any oil or other contaminants be pushed into this area.

As for projctiles, if ya have access to any maxi-balls or Lee R.E.A.L. Bullets try those. They load easy and shoot good for me.

 

[rodwha]

I have a blued Deerstalker and it hasn’t ever had issues. I’ve shot mostly Pyrodex P and RS as my father had given me a lot of it and I don’t like the fouling or performance in my revolvers so I used it to help break it in. I’ve used Rem #11 mag and Rem #10s and it’s never failed to fit or fire. I wonder if you have an obstruction along the flame channel.

 

[Zonie]

Rob
If you haven't already done it, clean out the flame channel hole that connects the bottom of the nipple with the bore.

If your gun doesn't have the "clean out screw" below the nipple, go to the store and buy some pipe cleaners. The kind of fuzzy cleaners pipe smokers use to clean their pipe stems.

Remove the nipple, wet the pipe cleaner and shove it thru the little hole at the bottom of the cavity the nipple screws into. It should go in far enough to reach inside the bore. Rotate it and pull it in and out to scrub away any deposits that might be in the flame channel.
That might improve the reliability of your ignition.

Do not try to increase the size of the little hole that goes thru the nipple. A factory nipple will let all of the flame needed to fire the powder. Enlarging the hole will lead to your hammer being blown back when the gun fires. This can damage the lock sear and tumbler and sometimes the lock mainspring if it happens too often.

 

[.36Rooster]

Does it snap caps when the hammer drops at least?

My lyman never has a problem. Although if I don't seat the caps flushly with a short dowel, occasionally it will fail to snap a cap. Otherwise never have any trouble with it.

Assuming your caps are snapping, Real black powder is GOOD advice then. Pyrodex ignites at 600 degrees F, and real black powder ignites at 300 F or so. Much easier to ignite.

I CLEAN my flash channel with a pipe cleaner and usually buy a couple hundred at a time. It needs to be clean. So does the exterior of the nipple. Not just the interior.

Is hammer aligned with nipple? That can cause a problem on a poorly fitted lock.

Just remember. Clean clean clean! Boil and run some soapy hot water through barrel until it runs clear out nipple hole. Brush and scrub. The water will evaporate in a matter of minutes from the hot barrel. Then give it a light coat of oil on inside with a patch on a jag. Clean that nipple until it's brand new. Then seat that cap down flush next time you load. If it doesn't go bang, EVERYTIME, then there is a separate problem we can address, and will then know it isn't a cleaning issue.

 

[Rob Templer]

What powder are you using? Are you using a substitute? If
so which one? That could be the issue.

FFF BP

 

[Rob Templer]

Does it snap caps when the hammer drops at least?

My lyman never has a problem. Although if I don't seat the caps flushly with a short dowel, occasionally it will fail to snap a cap. Otherwise never have any trouble with it.

Assuming your caps are snapping, Real black powder is GOOD advice then. Pyrodex ignites at 600 degrees F, and real black powder ignites at 300 F or so. Much easier to ignite.

I CLEAN my flash channel with a pipe cleaner and usually buy a couple hundred at a time. It needs to be clean. So does the exterior of the nipple. Not just the interior.

Is hammer aligned with nipple? That can cause a problem on a poorly fitted lock.

Just remember. Clean clean clean! Boil and run some soapy hot water through barrel until it runs clear out nipple hole. Brush and scrub. The water will evaporate in a matter of minutes from the hot barrel. Then give it a light coat of oil on inside with a patch on a jag. Clean that nipple until it's brand new. Then seat that cap down flush next time you load. If it doesn't go bang, EVERYTIME, then there is a separate problem we can address, and will then know it isn't a cleaning issue.

Yes it fires caps when you drop the hammer. I will try the Pipe Cleaner trick. Yes the hammer is aligned with the nipple

 

[Rob Templer]

Rob
If you haven't already done it, clean out the flame channel hole that connects the bottom of the nipple with the bore.

If your gun doesn't have the "clean out screw" below the nipple, go to the store and buy some pipe cleaners. The kind of fuzzy cleaners pipe smokers use to clean their pipe stems.

Remove the nipple, wet the pipe cleaner and shove it thru the little hole at the bottom of the cavity the nipple screws into. It should go in far enough to reach inside the bore. Rotate it and pull it in and out to scrub away any deposits that might be in the flame channel.
That might improve the reliability of your ignition.

Do not try to increase the size of the little hole that goes thru the nipple. A factory nipple will let all of the flame needed to fire the powder. Enlarging the hole will lead to your hammer being blown back when the gun fires. This can damage the lock sear and tumbler and sometimes the lock mainspring if it happens too often.

Yes it does have the clean out hole I will try that

 

[Rob Templer]

The first thought is to know what powder you are using. Most synthetic (actually all) powders have a higher ignition temperature and hang fires are the result. To that end hang fires and failure to ignite are common problems with the factory nipple and normal caps.

Lets start with the basics. I usually start my trouble shooting procedures at the very basic level. This way I get familiar with all the quirks of the situation. Don't stop until you are done unless you uncover the absolutely only issue that is causing the problem. Make sure the flash channel is clear. Run a pipe cleaner from the nipple seat to the powder chamber. The Lyman parts diagram implies that there is a clean out plug. Look down from the nipple seat to verify there is nothing in the flash channel blocking the flash path. Remove the clean out plug and clean that out through to the ignition chamber. Shine a light through the flash channel and look down the barrel for the light reflection to be sure there is no obstruction in the chambered breech. Clean the barrel and chambered breech with a good flush any way. When putting the rifle back together and even though the rifle barrel is stainless steel, use a never seize grease or choke tube grease on the threads.

If you are using a synthetic powder and black powder is not available, then try the #11 magnum caps. Your nipples are sized for #11 caps. CCI #10 caps will be too small. If real black powder is available, try real black powder. The lower ignition temperature greatly reduces the incidence of hang fires. There are nipples designed to bring more heat to the ignition chamber such as the Hot Shot, Spitfire or Red Hot nipple. A better choice than a shotgun (209 primer) and its specialized (PITA) nipple, is the musket nipple and RWS musket caps. These are available, but probably difficult in Australia. The hammer will have to be aligned with the musket nipple for reliable ignition making this a less than install and use option.

Too many people have good results with their Deerstalkers to think that enlarging the flash channel will be beneficial. But if you have a gunsmith enlarge the flash channel and replace the clean out screw, have the chambered breech enlarged if possible. Remember, the clean out screw and the nipple can not interfere. More powder in the breech will put more powder in the path of the flame through the flash channel.

The patched round ball should be effective on Fallow deer. You didn't say what the caliber of your rifle is, so I can't make a recommendation on ball and patch.

It's a 50 cal, Is there a musket cap nipple made for the Lyman Deerstalker I wonder?

 

[.36Rooster]

Yes it fires caps when you drop the hammer. I will try the Pipe Cleaner trick. Yes the hammer is aligned with the nipple

Really clean the hell out of it with those pipe cleaners. You can't clean that flash channel too much. Especially if you haven't done it before. That channel probably needs a good flush if you haven't been using pipe cleaners on it.

It's a 50 cal, Is there a musket cap nipple made for the Lyman Deerstalker I wonder?

I think there is one. But I don't think you'll end up needing one.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Do you oil the barrel? I hope not!
The slightest amount of oil present will snuff the flame.
Hot water flush will lift it out but after make a thick lubricant that wont run.
Nice buck by the way. Some make fine eating

 

[.36Rooster]

Thats another thing. I make it a point to only use as much oil as needed and not a drop more. And always use a pipe cleaner on it to clear oil before shooting. It's a good practice to oil sparingly and I tilt the gun muzzle downhill when I oil my bore with a patch/jag and finish with a dry swab or bore mop. Just how I do it. I do use oil in my flash channel, but VERY LIGHTLY. That seems necessary for storage. But when cleaning to shoot immediately after, I personally see no need. You don't want oil in there for shooting.

Some guys snap caps to clear the oil from their flash chamber. But I quit doing that 15 years ago. They're using too much oil to begin with, in my opinion.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thats another thing. I make it a point to only use as much oil as needed and not a drop more. And always use a pipe cleaner on it to clear oil before shooting. It's a good practice to oil sparingly and I tilt the gun muzzle downhill when I oil my bore with a patch/jag and finish with a dry swab or bore mop. Just how I do it. I do use oil in my flash channel, but VERY LIGHTLY. That seems necessary for storage. But when cleaning to shoot immediately after, I personally see no need. You don't want oil in there for shooting.

Some guys snap caps to clear the oil from their flash chamber. But I quit doing that 15 years ago. They're using too much oil to begin with, in my opinion.

No way on Gods earth do I use oil and no pipe cleaner on this earth will remove it.
I'm really glad you have made it work for you but one day....it wont!

That flash chamber should be bone dry.
Everyone stop worrying about a little rust!

 

[Howie1968]

It's a 50 cal, Is there a musket cap nipple made for the Lyman Deerstalker I wonder?

yes you will need 6x.75 mm i believe Amco has them ive got ampco musket nipples on some of my big boars that i use synthetic black powder in the good thing about Ampco musket nipples they have 4 sides alls you need is a 1/4 inch open wrench to remove them i like that feature

 

[TrapperPete]

cleaning procedure and storage procedure are 99% of ignition issues we have 3 Lyman's in the youth program we went through ignition issues until we started storing everything muzzle down.

get that flash channel clean very clean , a 30 cal brush down in to that patent breach , pipe cleaners from the nipple side.

nipple out , cleaning after every use , hot soapy water , flush with scalding hot water ,the hot water should shoot out the hole the nipple screws into very well.
dry it with a couple patches if you have an air compressor blow out the flash channel although it should not bee needed.

lube with only a natural lube like bore butter , oxyoke wonder lube , or something similar

mineral oils in muzzle loaders make hard fouling and foul up the flash channel.

this is very important , store it muzzle down on a rag or put a sock over the muzzle

what happens is all lube creeps some , especially when warm it fills that flash channel with lube when the guns sits upright

muzzle down it runs out rather than into the very last place you want it.

dry your nipple and install with just a touch of anti seize on the threads

when you have a clean gun any of the caps can set off a charge of black. most can even do pyrodex or 777

 

[.36Rooster]

I'm really glad you have made it work for you but one day.

Guess you're right. After 15 years my day is probably due. I'm sure when that day comes, I'll just clear it out and get by for another 15 years with the same method.

Anyway, the idea is to go very sparingly on oil in the flash channel. It's a very sensitive area when it comes to oil. Both for the gun, and to some of the people on here.

But I have put hundreds of balls through my lyman and I cant remember the last time I had a misfire. I stand behind my gun 100% and never have any doubt whether it will go bang. Hundreds of balls.

 

[TrapperPete]

also nipples often need to be tuned

a coupling or joining nut the right size chucked up in a drill and a fine file I have used a saw file triangular type for sharpening hand saws and keep a chainsaw raker file in my kit (rakers or guages on a chain saw chain) you spin the nipple and make the nipple the shape you need it to take the nipple perfectly. rem and cci are slightly different in size. I have a 45 kentucky that came with a few tins of Rem caps , when I had used those up the nipple needed to be tuned to the CCI caps I had and get normally