Cleaning patent breech?

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

What are some of the different methods you guys use to clean a patent breech? 54 caliber is what both of mine are.

 

[azmntman]

I didnt even know my cabelas had em (.54 too) till Zonie set me straight, and I have always cleaned normally (real good soapy water cleaning pumping till clear then some) and have never had an issue in like 15 years?

 

[Okie Hog]

Never bothered with cleaning the patent breech. i run a bristled pipe cleaner into the flame channel under the nipple, that's all: Works for me.

 

[BrownBear]

I started with the instructions in the Lyman owner manual, then added a mod.

They say to use a 35 caliber bristle brush. I went to 32 caliber since that's what I had on hand, then draped a cleaning patch over it. Then I work from the other end with a few pipe cleaners. Final step is to lube the threads on both the nipple and the cleanout screw with moly grease.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I clean normally. I put the breech into a can of soapy water and plunge several times, with or without the nipple. It is also my practice to then pour an ounce or two of hydrogen peroxide into the breech with nipple blocked. I let it set for about two minutes then finish the cleaning and lubricating. And, for the record, I don't mess with the screw on the side, never ever.

 

[Rick Boylan]

Well, I'll probably get scolded for this but I use room temp water to clean the barrel and run as many patches down as it takes to clean the barrel, then I pull off the lock, and take out the flash hole.
I used q-tips and pipe cleaners to clean out the breech and then dry with patches.

After that I use a light coating of rem oil and put it all back together again. My barrel is pinned in and I don't want to keep pulling it off of the stock.

So far my method has been working for me. Gun is rust free and clean as can be.

 

[mooman76]

It never wrong if it does the job right. Everyone does it a different way.

 

[leslie]

I got rid of all the "patent breeches"on my rifles so no problems,IMHO nock or patent breeches were a solution to a problem that did not exist.I am sure most all will disagree,so lay on Mc Duff.

 

[robinghewitt]

IMHO nock or patent breeches were a solution to a problem that did not exist.I am sure most all will disagree,so lay on Mc Duff.

Absolutely right. Nock's Patent Breech (an idea supposedly given to him by Zeke Baker) solved the "no cartridge neck to roll over" problem in a flintlock shotgun.

The term was then adopted by Americans who didn't want to drill sideways in to the barrel ahead of the breech plug. The combined breech plug and point of ignition got called a patent breech but I wouldn't know if there was ever a patent on it.

Fitting a true Nock Breech to a rifle would be very silly indeed :youcrazy:

 

[Zonie]

According to my information, Henry Nock did indeed have a Patent for his crossdrilled breech. The Patent date was in 1787.
It was first used on his double barrel shotguns and was said to speed up the ignition time.

Here is a drawing of the Nock Patent Breech



Notice the large cross drilled chambers. This was the essence of his design.
The idea was the powder in the cross drilled chamber would ignite and send a burst of flame up thru the main powder charge in the barrel.

I don't recall his name but one of Nock's primary competitors did not want to pay the royalty fees, admitting that Nock's breech was an improvement so he devised the chambered breech design which is basically what many of todays factory guns use.

It used an angular "flame channel" to connect the vent with a smaller than bore size chamber in the breech plug.

Here's one of my sketches that show the various breech designs used today.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Good info Zonie! I had no idea how they worked.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Does Lyman GPR have a patent breech? I know two of mine do in the Rocky Mtn Hawken by Pedersoli, but never knew anything about them until I owned them.

 

[necchi]

Not really a true Nock's Patent, more of a snail,, the flash channel is tapered and curves from the center of the breech to the nipple port.
Same as the TC's.
The common pail/pumping method is all that really needed. I've always had a clean/clear flash channel (over 20yrs) and never used a brush of any kind.

 

[Zonie]

The Lyman, TC and many Pedersoli rifles all use the "chambered breech".
The only difference between my sketch and what they are using is the flame channel between the chamber and the nipple is small and rather long.
Small in this case means something around 1/8 inch and long means somewhere between 1/2 and 1 inch.

The guns Traditions imports from Spain use the CVA Patent style.
Ironically, it is more of a chambered breech but because of the way the side drum threads into the barrel and breech plug they managed to obtain a Patent on it. I guess this makes it another type of "Patent Breech". :grin:

 

[galamb]

This should help Zonie's explanation - this is "typical" of what is used by Lyman, T/C and Pedersoli.

It is also typical of the Snail breeches and Ohio Patent breeches sold by places like Track of the Wolf (most produced by Pete Allan)

(CVA and Traditions use the "new CVA" style shown a few posts back).

 

[robinghewitt]

The idea was the powder in the cross drilled chamber would ignite and send a burst of flame up thru the main powder charge in the barrel.

I think the patent was that the rounded out shape of the combustion chamber would somehow focus the bang. Being pre-Forsythe nobody had any idea about lighting gunpowder with a detonator.

What is obvious now was not obvious then :idunno: :thumbsup:

 

[Vaino]

I for one think some patent or chambered breeches are too complicated...which brings up the question on your drawing....as pictured, how is the flash channel from the nipple to the ante chamber drilled?

I have a "kit" TC Hawken that I assembled {built} in 1976 and have never had a problem whatsoever w/ it not firing. Judging from the pipe cleaner that I've inserted into the flash channel after removing the clean out screw, the flash channel pretty near goes straight into the ante chamber...which is a good way to have it.

Early on after a few cleanings in a bucket of hot water, I no longer removed the cleanout screw....the ante chamber and flash channel were cleaned w/ a few pumps of the swab.

Built a Stith Hawken for a customer and the percussion patent breech whatever brand it was, had a tendency to clean well in a bucket of water, but when a patch was swabbed down the bore, it sometimes failed to fire..... a wire brush in lieu of a patch solved this problem.

The drum and nipple is much simpler and dependable than the chambered breeches, etc, but isn't as sturdy.

TC's breech is the best out there and evidently they researched which type of chambered breech is the most foolproof and took heed.

Flintlocks usually need a little more "care" than caplocks, but some caplocks w/ the various types of chambered breeches also require some "care". This shouldn't be necessary w/ a caplock.....Fred

 

[19 16 6]

I kind of like the patent breech idea on my Pedersoli & I think that it does address some problems that exist with the traditional breech.
Maybe not problems so much as inefficiencies in complete & even ignition. With the flash coming up the centre of the main charge the combustion will be even & more likely faster & complete. The same sort of theory as the short fat powder column of a Winchester short magnum case. These things deliver more MV for a smaller powder charge.
I also think ( & maybe I need correcting here )that the flash coming out from the flash hole on a flinter during combustion would be somewhat lessened due to a smaller less direct area the pressure is exerted. Yes-No :hmm: If that is the case then erosion of the flash hole is lessened & pressure behind the load increased.
What thinkest thou ?
O.

 

[bpd303]

I happen to agree. Never have a problem with ignition if the breech is properly cleaned.

 

[Billnpatti]

I have a couple of rifles that have patent breaches. I always clean them by removing the nipple, putting the breach in a can of warm soapy water and flushing them thoroughly. I also wanted a breach scraper to get down into the powder chamber to scrape out any crud. I determined what size breach scraper that I needed by sharpening a rather steep point on a dowel rod and putting it down the bore. I felt around until it dropped into the powder chamber and then I pressed down and turned the dowel a turn or two. When I removed it, I could see the ring left by the edges of the powder chamber. I measured the diameter of the chamber and bought a scraper of that size. I think what I have is either a .32 or a .36 caliber breach scraper. I seldom need it but I give the powder chambers a good scraping every once in a while just to be sure that nothing has built up in the chamber. So far, my usual cleaning method has left no crud build up but I have my breach scraper just in case.