Traditions Firearms

[northernlightsflyer]

Can anyone tell me about the Traditions Pennsylvania Rifles?

I have one which is a cap lock gun not fired. This to me is a beautiful piece of work and I am asking is there anything that has to be done to these before shooting and what is the recommended clean up after shooting.

Thank you Richard Davis in Tok Alaska.

 

[northernlightsflyer]

I have recently acquired a 50 cal. Traditions Pennsylvania Rifle. What is the general idea on these guns I am getting back to Black Powder after 35 years away and want to make sure that I do it right as far as safety and cleaning after shooting.

35 years ago I thought I knew it all, now I am not so head strong and a know it all, Now I need help and need advice and I am eager to learn it right. My goal is to use this rifle to get a Moose Caribou Grizz and Black Bears and Sheep and if I can last long enough the one trophy I really want is the Mountain Goat

Any ideas on these rifles I would love to know and if members think that they aren't the best rifle to do what I want to with please tell me I want to do it right and with the right rifle.

Thanks so much Richard Davis in Tok Alaska

 

[tg]

I am not a big fan of traditions guns, bit I think the real issue here is the bore since considering the list of game animals you are going after.I would wang a large bore .58-.62 double gun twist for ball

 

[mykeal]

Yeah, tg is on the right track - your target list is really a bit of a challenge for a .50 cal long rifle. You need to be close, in fact, much closer than would normally be comfortable, in order for a .50 to do the job on the bigger ones on your list. In addition, you've got some long range shots there, and both accuracy and stopping power of that .50 will be inadequate for, for instance, the Mountain Goat.

Yep, tg's right. Go for a .58 minimum.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

you go after moose or griz with that .50 you better be damn high up in a tree! :haha:

Traditions are shooters! You may have a rifle that is a powder hog, my kentucky wants 110gr 3f to shoot the tightest groups possible.

 

[cowpoke1955]

Have to agree with tg and Mykeal. The .50 caliber may be OK for caribu and black bear. For moose and grizz, you'd want something heavier. I like tg's thoughts of a double rifle. Personally, I'd try a .50 cal.....a .50 cal. BMG, but perfer a 105mm recoilless :rotf: . Sheep and goats are normally a long range shot. If you can get close enough, maybe. Just my thoughts :thumbsup: .

 

[northernlightsflyer]

I want to thank you for your input on this. I thin k I will put this in a case on the wall and continue my quest with my 375 Remington Ultra Mag.

I will try the Caribou with my 50 cal CVA Hawken.

Thanks again to you and the others who have offered their ideas.

 

[Zonie]

The answers to your questions could take a lot of writing but I'll touch on a few of the high points.

First off, you can use real black powder or the synthetic black powders like Pyrodex, 777 or one of the other powders that are specifically made for muzzleloaders.

Under no circumstance can you use any type of modern "smokeless" powders. Even the slowest burning types can and will blow your gun up.

You will need some #11 percussion caps and some round balls that are slightly smaller than the bore size. If the gun is a .45 caliber, use .440 or .445 diameter balls.
If the gun is a .50 caliber, use .490 or .495 diameter balls.

These balls will be loaded using a cloth patch between them and the bore.
A typical cloth patch MUST be pure cotton. No synthetic man made material will work. The typical patch thickness for your gun will be .015 thick.

You will need to lubricate the patch and there are special lubes that do a good job like "Bore Butter". If you can't find this, Crisco, Olive Oil or spit can be used. Coat the patch lightly on the side that will be against the barrels bore.

Because the ball diameter and twice the patch thickness is larger than the bore of your gun you will find that you will have to use some sort of starter to get the patched ball into the bore.
They sell a "short starter" that has small dowels on it to shove the ball into the bore but if you don't have one of these, a round wooden ball or even a block of wood can be used.

The starting powder load should be about the same as the caliber, that is, a "50" caliber would use about 50 grains of powder. A "45" would use about 45 grains of powder.
A rough guide for the maximum load would be about twice the caliber so a .45 calibers Max would be about 90 grains and a .50 caliber would be about 100 grains.

Black powder is not corrosive until it is fired.
The fouling left will draw moisture out of the air and this fouling will rapidly rust the bore.
Every time you finish shooting your gun you should wash and dry the barrel.

Black powder and the synthetic black powders are all water soluble so simple soap and water is all you need to clean your gun.

This forum has tons of information about shooting and cleaning your gun so if you have the time, read all of the posts you can.

Have fun and remember, we are here to help you so if you have any questions at all feel free to post them.

 

[Rick Davis]

Well, I'm Richard Davis too and like you, I have the Traditions PA Rifle. You're asking several questions here, so I'll answer the part I know and leave the rest to more experienced persons.

It's a great flinter but it's an entry level production gun. My example is very reliable, I don't think it's misfired yet. Accuracy-wise it's okay but not spectacular. My example hits low at 25 yards, so obviously the front sight needs to go down or the rear sight up. The rear sight adjustment setup isn't to my liking, the rear sight spring looks *far* too thick.

Since it is very reliable and faster than my muskets, I really enjoy shooting it. As far as cleaning, I'm from the school that mandates complete detail teardowns for cleaning and inspection. With modern guns and infrequent use, this is okay. With some guns, maybe not. This appears to be the case with the Traditions PA Rifle. It looks like Ardesa used wood dough to fill in where there were gaps around the lock and inlays, and also the barrel retaining pins. It's not hard to clean but I don't look forward to the day when I pull the barrel for interior cleaning.

I haven't fired it long enough to detail it's capabilities, but it is an excellent shooter. If I have more time, I'll try targets at 100 yards and beyond. Judging by my rate of improvement the last time I fired it, 100 yard targets shouldn't be a problem. It has a very long sight radius and a nice, thin front sight blade. The question of lethality is a simple one, YES!

I'm not a hunter, so I'm going to refrain from comment about the animals you plan to take. I really don't know a lot about terminal ballistics on animals, so I'd rather say I don't know and leave this to experienced hunters.

 

[BossHoss]

I just have to say that is about the most simple, clear 'n easy to understand explanation i have ever read to any question on any fourm :thumbsup:

 

[mykeal]

He does do a good job, doesn't he?

 

[50cal.cliff]

As an owner of the .50 Traditions St. Louis Hawken I will say this. Traditions is an entry level gun as far as fit and finish. However it is a shooter. Once you get it sighted in and know what the gun is capable of, if you do your part it will definately do it's. I can put it in the center of the target at 25yds, 50yds, and 100yds by knowing my gun, my load, and how much to raise for the distance.
Having said all that I think I might be inclined to go with a heavier caliber for the list that you mentioned. I have seen bear shot that just would not go down with one shot and remember that is what you have. I would feel more comfortable with a little more knock down power for a bear, when I hit something like that I want him to know he is hit!

 

[silverfox]

Zonie will tell it like it is. Plain and simple and to the point. Answers all your questions without getting excited.
Fox :hatsoff:

 

[Zonie]

Hell, I didn't do anything that you folks haven't done 100 times.
I just beat you to it. :grin:

 

[northernlightsflyer]

Thank you Zonie this is great and I will take your advice and make sure I do this right.

I have to also ask what do you think about the CVA Double rifle in 54 or larger caliber? I have seen several on online auction sites for bidding. Are these good or is there something else i should consider in a double rifle?

Thanks R.Davis in Tok Alaska

 

[Zonie]

The only CVA Double rifle I see in the BLUE BOOK OF MODERN BLACK POWDER VALUES is a .50 caliber Over/Under. The book does not mention any of these rifles in calibers larger than that.
The CVA O/U was last made in 1994.

The Pedersoli KODIAK EXPRESS is a SxS that is made in .50, .54, .58 and .72 caliber.

These Kodiak rifles are pretty pricy, even used.

I have never shot one of them however there are several of our members who own them.
Use the "Search" button at the top of the page and put Kodiak in as a search word. You should come up with several posts about them.