Sight picture vs. hold for .45 cal SMR

[Flint62Smoothie]

It really depends on the velocity and base ‘height’ of the sights above the bore.

For example, when I added more powdsh to the 45 load that I had worked up for the recent NE Flintlick Championship Shoot, it hit lower @ 100Y as the trajectory was flattened.

I ended up doing what someone else had already suggested, by raising the front blade out (or up) of the rear sight ears, using my 50Y load. It worked, end up w/ 3rd highest score on the long distance targets, where only 1 point separated everyone.

 

[wiscoaster]

Some of the best advice I have seen lately! Don't do a thing to the sights until you have the rifle grouping well!

Yup. I just tweaked the front sight a little for windage. Haven't fixed its position yet.

 

[wiscoaster]

Yup. Except I use 60/3F for every range, only about 3/4" higher at 50.

That's what I'd prefer to do: use the same load regardless of distance, and just vary my hold. That's what I'm used to doing with my milsurps. I have a table of POA offsets for centered POI for each rifle. I don't mess with the sights on collectibles. With this rifle, I started at 45 and worked up to 60, using center POA, and the POI elevation offset difference between loads seemed to start plateauing around 55. So I think 60 will probably be my "standard load" for this rifle.

 

[nchawkeye]

You have some good answers but I'll add a couple of more (just to confuse you)...

First, I sight my deer rifles at 2 inches high at 50 yards...With my .54 and 80grs FFF Goex, I am dead on at 75 and about 2-3 inches low at 100...You might also consider upping your powder charge for deer and longer ranges (if it still groups well, if not, then recheck your patches and adjust accordingly)...

 

[S.Kenton]

Yup. I just tweaked the front sight a little for windage. Haven't fixed its position yet.

What he means is, don’t do anything at all to the sights until you’ve developed a good group… even if the group is grouping to the left, right.. high or low. Develop your best load FIRST before you even think about touching the sights. If you go adjusting windage or vertical it’s easy to get confused. I normally spend alot of time developing my load for the best group possible. Then I’ll consider adjusting my sights for windage or vertical.

 

[wiscoaster]

...I normally spend alot of time developing my load for the best group possible. Then I’ll consider adjusting my sights for windage or vertical.

In progress. Note I hadn't yet fixed the front sight placement.

 

[S.Kenton]

In progress. Note I hadn't yet fixed the front sight placement.

Normally.. and I know there are some exceptions, but I normally only have to adjust the rear sight for windage, front sight for vertical. Also if your shooting it and havnt fixed, meaning if it’s loose) the front sight position yet, your sort of just chasing your tail.. when shooting for groups, make sure all sights are tight and loading procedure is exactly the same for 5 shots, if groups are good then start on adjusting the sights, if groups are bad then increase/ decrease the powder charge, try a different lube and/ or try different patch thickness. I always start at 25 yards and work my outward to maximum of 100.

 

[BadDaditood]

My second SMR was a dream to dial in.
It shot center but 2” low at 50 yds.
Filed the front sight down till it was zeroed at 50.
Hopefully you haven’t filed the dovetail “wings” of the front sight- what sticks out past the barrel. I put the bottom of the front sights’ dovetail on top of the rear sights’ horizontal top for 100 yds.
Sure they make adjustable rear sights- they also make scopes and lasers but there’s nothing faster on target than a fixed rear and a shooter who knows his ranges.
I bought a buckhorn rear sight for this Kibler, but his sights work so well I haven’t used it.
It and my first SMR like .440” ball, .022” denim patch and 50 gns 3f Swiss.

 

[LANEY REECE]

Okie Dokie...

First check your patches. IF you're damaging the patches during loading the ball will seem to flight straight out to 40-50 yards, then downright disappear while flying beyond 50 to 100 yards.

NEXT, you need to buy an inexpensive spotting scope, IF you want to go to 100 yards.

THEN, try 60, 70, and 80 grain loads of 3Fg at 50 yards, and determine which is most accurate. So you shoot three shots and see if any of the groupings are obviously closer together. This is done from a bench using a rest. Repeat with 2Fg just to be thorough. Confirm this load with five shots, very meticulously loaded, with meticulous cleaning between each shot.

After you have the most accurate loading, THEN you work on going beyond 50 yards. The next step is to try 75 yards, and you will need a spotting scope for this. Check your grouping, but don't worry about hitting the center of the target..., yet. See if your group is drifting left or right. You may tap your rear sight slightly to adjust for right or left, but don't worry about elevation..., yet. Then go to 100 yards, and repeat.

Once you're centered the group (but likely low) at 100 yards, you may try adding 10 grains of powder to see if there is much rise in point of impact..., but more than likely you will need to file down the front sight post a tad. Use masking tape on your barrel behind the front sight and in front of the front sight three layers in each location before you file, to protect the barrel. Then gently remove steel or silver from the front sight post by filing lengthwise. After a little is removed, test fire the rifle to check the impact. It should have moved upwards.

Repeat the filing and test firing process until you get the ball near the bullseye. Then shoot a three round string of fire to confirm.

NOW IF you find that group is on the target but kinda large at 100 yards, it may simply be that your front sight is too dang thick. I've seen 'em where it was like trying to center a quarter on the top of a 2x4 piece of lumber. IF the front sight is too thick you get a thin, silver front sight blade from Track of the Wolf.

LD

THANK YOU Sir , that read helps all.

 

[rafterob]

As mentioned, always determine your best load first. Then set your sights, then learn how much hold it takes for distance. When I am first testing a rifle at 100 yards I cover the whole backer board with white paper and put the largest black bullseye on that I can find. On a good day I'll be hitting the paper right off the bat and can adjust from there. On a bad day it will take 10-15 shots before I finally hit the paper. Of the 3 rifles I now shoot 2 are about 6" low at 100 and the other is 8" low at 100.

 

[#blackpowderbill]

Put a 2" dot on a paper at 25 yards.
Bench the rifle
Hold at 6'oclock
Shoot see where the hole is.Now shoot 4 or 5 shots to get your group.
Then adjust as needed left right up down
Pick a moderate powder charge 45/60 grains.

Stop chasing holes at 50 and 100 yarde

 

[BillinOregon]

Following. Been thinking about a Kibler SMR in .40, but must shoot a .45 to be legal for big game in New Mexico, and no, I can't just buy two.

 

[wiscoaster]

....must shoot a .45 to be legal for big game in New Mexico, and no, I can't just buy two.

Get the .45 and change out the sights like I did. Detail here:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/what-sight-for-kibler-smr.168744/#post-2423804

 

[M. De Land]

Yup. Except I use 60/3F for every range, only about 3/4" higher at 50.

I have always had good success with 65 grains of 3 F in my .45 cal rifles and Green Mtn barrels . On the .45 cal SMR flint gun I have a solid rear sight calibrated for six o'clock at 25 yards and hold Kentucky for extended range.
I do prefer a rear sight with large speed dial elevation knob and crank to the next position instead of holding Kentucky so as to keep the same sight picture.

 

[elkhorne]

BillinOregon,
saw your post and the 45 is required in a lot of states to be legal for any big game, deer included. Also are you in the Sweetwater near Abliene? In my old stomping grounds.

 

[hanshi]

With the primitive open sights on muzzleloaders I've never been able to group 5 or 6 shots much 4" at 100 yds. I usually sight in at 2", or about that, high at 50 yards. I've been able to kill deer at around 100 yards (+ or -) but a shot that far is kinda rare in Georgia. But generally shots at deer averaged well under 50 yards. At the range I shot at 100 yds standing up and braced against something. But hunting had me using bales of hay for a bench-rest which worked perfectly. Anything under 100 yds was with no rest.