Sight picture vs. hold for .45 cal SMR

[wiscoaster]

I took the SMR to the range for its second shoot today. My goal was to stretch it out to 100 yds. I loaded 60 grains and first shot 50 yds using this sight picture:

with point of aim at center of target. I had drifted the front sight a tad to get zero windage offset. The resulting point of impact for this sight picture and center of target hold was three inches low at 50 yds.

However, I couldn't hit the target at all at 100 yds. I tried six inches high with no luck, but I couldn't tell where I was actually hitting due to all the smoke, and there was nobody to spot for me.

Should I adjust my sight picture and how much, or should I adjust my hold and if so by how much? I'm not at all familiar with round ball ballistics. How much drop in additional 50 yds to target?

Thank you.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Okie Dokie...

First check your patches. IF you're damaging the patches during loading the ball will seem to flight straight out to 40-50 yards, then downright disappear while flying beyond 50 to 100 yards.

NEXT, you need to buy an inexpensive spotting scope, IF you want to go to 100 yards.

THEN, try 60, 70, and 80 grain loads of 3Fg at 50 yards, and determine which is most accurate. So you shoot three shots and see if any of the groupings are obviously closer together. This is done from a bench using a rest. Repeat with 2Fg just to be thorough. Confirm this load with five shots, very meticulously loaded, with meticulous cleaning between each shot.

After you have the most accurate loading, THEN you work on going beyond 50 yards. The next step is to try 75 yards, and you will need a spotting scope for this. Check your grouping, but don't worry about hitting the center of the target..., yet. See if your group is drifting left or right. You may tap your rear sight slightly to adjust for right or left, but don't worry about elevation..., yet. Then go to 100 yards, and repeat.

Once you're centered the group (but likely low) at 100 yards, you may try adding 10 grains of powder to see if there is much rise in point of impact..., but more than likely you will need to file down the front sight post a tad. Use masking tape on your barrel behind the front sight and in front of the front sight three layers in each location before you file, to protect the barrel. Then gently remove steel or silver from the front sight post by filing lengthwise. After a little is removed, test fire the rifle to check the impact. It should have moved upwards.

Repeat the filing and test firing process until you get the ball near the bullseye. Then shoot a three round string of fire to confirm.

NOW IF you find that group is on the target but kinda large at 100 yards, it may simply be that your front sight is too dang thick. I've seen 'em where it was like trying to center a quarter on the top of a 2x4 piece of lumber. IF the front sight is too thick you get a thin, silver front sight blade from Track of the Wolf.

LD

 

[SDSmlf]

Should I adjust my sight picture and how much, or should I adjust my hold and if so by how much? I'm not at all familiar with round ball ballistics. How much drop in additional 50 yds to target?

I would not change anything until you figure some things out. First of all, I would get a bigger target. A BIG target. Then shoot at 100 yards and your questions will be answered. For example, one can usually get large pieces of cardboard at most any local appliance store for the asking. Put your target middle to high on that clean piece of cardboard. Then have at it.

Not knowing your velocity, so just a guess, but figure a .440” roundball at 1600fps or so sighted in at 50 yards will likely be 8” to 10” low at 100 yards. Again, with the same sight picture, see what happens at 100 yards and then YOU will know what happens with your gun and a particular load.

 

[wiscoaster]

Okie Dokie...

...

Thanks!! Very informative. Have spotting scope. No can do 75 yds around here. Patches seem OK, but how do I determine if they're damaged by loading? Production patches appropriate for caliber, pre-lubed but extra patch lube applied. Ramming force seems appropriate.

 

[Rich44]

I would not change anything until you figure some things out. First of all, I would get a bigger target. A BIG target. Then shoot at 100 yards and your questions will be answered. For example, one can usually get large pieces of cardboard at most any local appliance store for the asking. Put your target middle to high on that clean piece of cardboard. Then have at it.

Not knowing your velocity, so just a guess, but figure a .440” roundball at 1600fps or so sighted in at 50 yards will likely be 8” to 10” low at 100 yards. Again, with the same sight picture, see what happens at 100 yards and then YOU will know what happens with your gun and a particular load.

Follow those instructions. Get a big piece of cardboard and shot three shots at fifty and mark them. And three a hundred and mark them. Leave the file at home so your not tempted doing any work yet. And report back with the results.

 

[wiscoaster]

... but figure a .440” roundball at 1600fps or so sighted in at 50 yards will likely be 8” to 10” low at 100 yards. ...

OK, thanks. Useful information. I'm more familiar with .30 cal centerfire.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Thanks!! Very informative. Have spotting scope. No can do 75 yds around here. Patches seem OK, but how do I determine if they're damaged by loading? Production patches appropriate for caliber, pre-lubed but extra patch lube applied. Ramming force seems appropriate.

you look at them after firing. They should be intact. IF they have holes OR if they disintegrate or shred... problems ....

LD

 

[flatcreek]

3" low at 50 yards probably puts you about a 12" or more low at 100 yard, so hold over 12".
Phil

 

[wiscoaster]

you look at them after firing. They should be intact. IF they have holes OR if they disintegrate or shred... problems ....

LD

Hah!! OK. Not possible where I shoot. I can't make a bunch of AR guys stand around twindling their thumbs while I search downrange for a patch. But I got the picture.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Agree with LD's comments above. I usually sight in, dead on, at 75 yards and then use the Elmer Keith method for longer ranges where the the front sight is elevated above the rear notch, rather than try to aim at some invisible point, x number of inches above the target. This works well out to about 150 yards.

 

[S.Kenton]

Hah!! OK. Not possible where I shoot. I can't make a bunch of AR guys stand around twindling their thumbs while I search downrange for a patch. But I got the picture.

if possible go when the range isn’t super busy.. those patches tell some pretty important information if you can find them. Look about 10-30 yards down range, look in the direction the wind is blowing.

 

[Ballshooter]

Try a light lubed flet wad or corn meal over the powder.

 

[Ballshooter]

I have also been know to use the 13 yard rule. When zeroed at that distance, you will be a bit high at 50 yards, almost right-on at 75 yards, and a little low at 100-yards. This has worked well for me.

 

[Mark E. Prickett]

I shoot a Kibler SMR. .016 pillow ticking, spit patch, swab between every shot, .445 hand cast round ball. fff Schutzian powder.
1: 25 yards, 50 grains of fff aim one inch low.
2: 50 yards 50 grains of fff aim dead center
3: 100 yards 60 grains of fff aim 4.5 inches high
If you cand see where the balls are hitting put a large cardboard behind the target.

 

[SOLANCO]

Hah!! OK. Not possible where I shoot. I can't make a bunch of AR guys stand around twindling their thumbs while I search downrange for a patch. But I got the picture.

If you are retired, or can take a day off, go to the range midweek when it will likely be vacant, or sparsely populated. I do not like going evenings or weekends.
I am perfectly capable of embarrassing myself while shooting. Do not need an audience

 

[Wirehair]

Where do you live in WI? I have a 100 yd range in my back yard. Can get you dialed in anytime.

 

[French Colonial]

100 yards post a target pretty high with a good sized aiming point that you can center on well, post another piece of paper below it and shoot about five shots or so. Go down and measure the distance from your aiming point to the actual bullet impacts.

You now know your drop at 100 yards, no spotter required.

 

[LME]

Follow those instructions. Get a big piece of cardboard and shot three shots at fifty and mark them. And three a hundred and mark them. Leave the file at home so your not tempted doing any work yet. And report back with the results.

Some of the best advice I have seen lately! Don't do a thing to the sights until you have the rifle grouping well!

 

[#blackpowderbill]

25 yards 25 yards 25 Yards
Sight in at 25 yards.
Adjust, get your left and right shooting same spot no matter how high or low the group is.

If low take a.little.off the front sight. OR drop the front blades down into the rear V.
You should be holding 6' o'clock at 25 yards.

At 50 yards dead on the ten ring.
100 yards 12 o'clock on the top of the black
Once you have figured that out then you can file on the sights if you must or use the suggestions above.
KISS

I have a calculation to set my sight heights when I stalling a new sight after firing a few shots at ,here it is again, 25 yards.
I don't move out until the group is pretty much one hole.

 

[IanH]

I shoot a Kibler SMR. .016 pillow ticking, spit patch, swab between every shot, .445 hand cast round ball. fff Schutzian powder.
1: 25 yards, 50 grains of fff aim one inch low.
2: 50 yards 50 grains of fff aim dead center
3: 100 yards 60 grains of fff aim 4.5 inches high
If you cand see where the balls are hitting put a large cardboard behind the target.

Yup. Except I use 60/3F for every range, only about 3/4" higher at 50.