Priming the pan first

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MtnMan

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Stupid? one of those men had more iron in him then 100 blowhards we have now. guys like them fought the British French Spanish Indians Canadians and each other. they fought for and established this country with their blood in the ground. Today we piss on them while giving the country away

I agree and said nothing about the soldiers. They were brave beyond words. I was talking about the fighting methods and the soldiers had no choice about how it was done.
I think there was a better way to fight without losing so many men.

However, don't be so quick to judge others of this time.
 

Gavinm28

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Guys, please. I want this thread to be full of good information to new shooters and people who had the same question as me, and I don't want the thread to be off-putting to newcomers at all. Please cease your armchair history nonsense, that's not the purpose of this thread. Stop the passive aggressive comments. Start a new thread if you want.
 

MtnMan

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Your first post asked about the loading method. It's tied in with the fighting method. If they didn't fight the way they did they wouldn't have to load for speed. So, it is the topic.

I won't bring it up again on my own but I will respond to a quote or a post that's obviously pointed at me. I was done after my first post but I do respond to quotes. Not to argue but to give my side of it.

I've had my say. I'm done if others are too.
 

Gavinm28

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Your first post asked about the loading method. It's tied in with the fighting method. If they didn't fight the way they did they wouldn't have to load for speed. So, it is the topic.

I won't bring it up again on my own but I will respond to a quote or a post that's obviously pointed at me. I was done after my first post but I do respond to quotes. Not to argue but to give my side of it.

I've had my say. I'm done if others are too.
I asked if it's safe to do nowadays. I didn't ask if it was effective/smart/anything else history related. You're the passive aggressive king. Giving your side of it is arguing. Cool it my dude, act as though a newcomer was reading this thread and you don't want to deter them from the community. I'm done trolling just to screw around. I deleted those comments. Everyone is welcome to contribute new info as they find it, as long as it's reflective of the thread. Thanks.
 

MtnMan

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No, it's not safe. Use a frizzen cover at a minimum.

Do you need to be told any more than that? You got your answer and now the thread has moved on to the fighting method. When you start a thread you don't own all it's content. Especially, after you got your answer.

Now i'm done unless you insist on talking to me.
 

flinter1977

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All I have to say is it's safer to prime after it's loaded . Hope there is no offense taken. Would rather be cautious and live to shoot another day.
 

Gavinm28

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No, it's not safe. Use a frizzen cover at a minimum.

Do you need to be told any more than that? You got your answer and now the thread has moved on to the fighting method. When you start a thread you don't own all it's content. Especially, after you got your answer.

Now i'm done unless you insist on talking to me.
It's just toxic. Keep fighting people on here if you like. I think it can be more productive on topic. I arrived at my conclusion, but some people still aren't convinced. I messed around saying those "smooth brain stay mad" comments, but deleted them because they weren't serious and we're off-topic. This will be my final comment to you, since I think arguing on the muzzleloading forums about stupid stuff that doesn't matter is unproductive and a waste of time. If you want to keep doing it, go ahead.
 

Gavinm28

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All I have to say is it's safer to prime after it's loaded . Hope there is no offense taken. Would rather be cautious and live to shoot another day.
No offense at all. I actually am working on acquiring a leather frizzen guard, which I can put over the frizzen after priming the pan. That way, if the mechanism were to fail when ramming, the Flint will hit the leather and won't make any sparks. I can keep my "muh historical accuracy" and be safe while doing it.
 

Grenadier1758

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Thanks for the info. I found a place that sells Hammerstalls for pretty cheap (veteran arms) and I think I'll roll with that as I have shooting plans this weekend and I'm trying to get it as soon as possible. Yeah, my musket is the model 1766 Charleville. I haven't had problems so far, one or two flashes in the pan but that's just because I've been experimenting with the minimum amount of powder I can use for priming. I'll keep them in mind in case I have any issues
You can have a hammerstal pretty quick if you have an old leather work glove. Cut the thumb off and you have a hammerstall.
 

Gavinm28

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You can have a hammerstal pretty quick if you have an old leather work glove. Cut the thumb off and you have a hammerstall.
The hammer of the musket I have is wider and maybe taller than a glove will permit unfortunately. I ended up talking with good ol' Two Feathers. He's great
 

Flinty Scot

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The single best bit of advice I've seen here is to use a hammer/frizzen stall.
Enough copies of orders requiring their use, presumably at all times other than combat, have been posted here to establish that it was standard protocol.
That you have said you'll consider it is all to convincing I think we'll accomplish, and it may save you, or others around you, from harm. As far as I'm concerned, that's enough.

As my grandfather was fond of quoting, "a man convinced, against his will, is of the same opinion still".
Good luck and enjoy reliving history.
 

tenngun

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I think your much safer with a hammer stall.
And I think I was clear I thought it had a potential of danger that people do not need unless a cubit of sharp steel is headed toward you favorite belly.
Traditionally a musket was primed first. And hammerstalls weren’t used while shooting. So, if your putting a stall on and take off your breaking protocol. And you won’t get one shot every fifteen seconds
May I suggest one of the little 2oz pistol flask as a ‘priming horn’. It’s tiny and will take up little space in your bag.and would give you several hundred primes. It won’t mean any more time then putting on and removing it.
 

Billy Boy

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There are allot of things that are "historically accurate" that I wouldn't do today. One is loading into the barrel directly from the powder horn.
Agree, scooping and drinking a hat full of water from the lake/river as the fur-laden canoe glides silently along might be historically correct, or even romantic. Pooping thru a screen door for three days is neither. That is nothing compared to an unexpected discharge. Pls prime last..
 

Grenadier1758

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The hammer of the musket I have is wider and maybe taller than a glove will permit unfortunately. I ended up talking with good ol' Two Feathers. He's great
Two feathers is a great supplier and you did fine. For our artillery unit, the Wall gun used to get a hammer stall from the thumb of a welder's glove until a proper hammerstall was made. You will be hard pressed to find a larger hammer (frizzen) on any other flint lock than one on the wall gun. Its about twice the size of the hammer (frizzen) on my Bess.
 

tenngun

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Agree, scooping and drinking a hat full of water from the lake/river as the fur-laden canoe glides silently along might be historically correct, or even romantic. Pooping thru a screen door for three days is neither. That is nothing compared to an unexpected discharge. Pls prime last..
Well screen doors only go back I think to the 1880s pooping through one is not an hc practice fo ml era.
Howsomever dying of “La Mal de Vach” is.
 

Zonie

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No offense at all. I actually am working on acquiring a leather frizzen guard, which I can put over the frizzen after priming the pan. That way, if the mechanism were to fail when ramming, the Flint will hit the leather and won't make any sparks. I can keep my "muh historical accuracy" and be safe while doing it.
This reply indicates that you intend to prime the pan before you start loading the main powder charge into the barrel.
As many have said, this is the way the military were trained to load their gun. I seriously doubt that the average person or hunter back in the 17th and 18th century would do it this way. What I'm getting at is, unless you are a part of a military reenactment group, there is no reason to prime the pan before loading the main powder charge.

Sorry if this has already been covered but I want to add the following:

It's just my opinion but the safest way to load a flintlock is as follows:
1. If it is not open, open the pan cover and lower the cock and flint into the fired position. Do not place the hammer in the half cock position and close the pan cover. If you wish, you can install the frizzen cover at this stage.

2. Pour the measured powder down the barrel.

3. Place the patch on the muzzle and place the ball into the center of it.

4. Start the patched ball down the bore and ram it down to the powder in stages by grabbing the ramrod no more than 1 foot above the muzzle and shoving the ramrod down. Repeat this until the ball is firmly sitting on the powder charge.

5. With the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, pull the cock (hammer) to the half cocked position.

6. Prime the pan and close the frizzen. At this stage, if it is not already on the frizzen, install the leather flint guard.
The gun is now ready to be carried if your hunting or you don't want to shoot it right then.

Notice, with the cock (hammer) fully down while your loading the barrel, there is no chance of it jarring loose from the half cock notch and falling. Having the cock in the fired position is especially important if the gun has a double set trigger.
There have been cases where the shooter placed the cock in the "half cock" position but it wasn't really in the half cock notch. Instead, the sear was caught by the fly and just seemed to be at half cock because it stopped in a position that was near the place the half cock notch would have positioned it.
In this condition, with the sear resting on the fly, any sharp bump can cause the sear to jump over the half cock notch and allow the cock to fall.

Also, you should know, if the pan cover is closed on a gun that has had the main powder charge dropped down the barrel and the cock does fall, the flint will hit the frizzen. Even though there is no priming in the pan, if this happens, the sparks from the flint hitting the frizzen can fly thru the vent hole and the gun will fire. This has happened hundreds of times in the past.
 

Gavinm28

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Yeah I'm familiar with civilian loading methods (tow, patching, etc.) I usually patch the ball, but I'm interested in using cartridges to try and get a sense of military procedure (even if it isn't 100% historically accurate). A hammerstall removes the risk of the gun going off half cocked. No sparks will be produced. Now I just have to worry about the countless other "risks" people like to talk about in muzzleloading. I don't see anything wrong with using this method of loading with a hammerstall. People like to exaggerate a lot on here. For example, I've gotten a lot of responses like "well, if you really want to be HC, then you should be doing [insert dangerous thing here]" or "Do you really need to use this loading method to enjoy shooting?" I disregard these comments. They're farcical. Nothing like asking a question about safety only to have people tell me that I'm having fun wrong. Thank you to people who are telling me what could go wrong and what alternatives I should use. Those responses are most helpful to anyone who will have this question in the future. I've arrived at my conclusion.
 

Gavinm28

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What I'm getting at is, unless you are a part of a military reenactment group, there is no reason to prime the pan before loading the main powder charge.
I do have a reason. I'm having fun, and thanks to the hammerstall, I'm staying safe while doing it!
 
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