This wont be of much help, weve been shut down because to many postings,over 300 and over 2000 something views each of the other 2 times, so we are trying to not talk about Hawkens here, Something we all want to do, so we dont get shut down over and over.A fast answer is.. the Hawken was made in it seems one way but kept changeing to the demands of its need in history, it has a very distinc line that you see or dont I guess. Not great answer but the best I can do in one space , maybe someone else will add to this. FRED :hatsoff: See Hawken 1 and 2 on here