I bought some actual black powder

[bigbore442001]

A couple of years ago I bought a TC New Englander 12 guage shotgun that had been converted to flint and integral choke tubes added. The gun is beautful and I had intended to use it on spring turkey and maybe other game like geese. Well I never got around to it, so to speak so it did not see any action.

I decided to take the plunge and buy some actual black powder. All of my muzzleloading to date has been with substitions like Pyrodex and now Triple 7. I needed a can of 2 f for the main charge and a can of 4 f for the priming pan.

What happened at this little gun shop in Rhode Island surprised me. I was asked for my driver's license. I inquired and the owner said that this is a federal regulation. I never had to show any form of ID for smokeless propellent as well as the substitutes like T7. When I was much younger I do not recall anything like this.

When did this start?

 

[Fred_Dwyer]

When did this start?

Decades ago. Black Powder is classified as an explosive, and you'd expect to sign papers when buying TNT right? same same. I bought some the other week and was surprised I didn't get carded. I guess it varies by municipality. Some places don't even let stores keep it; others have ridiculous regulations about storage magazines.

 

[MSW]

Well, the short answer is i don't really know- but here are some points to ponder:

It's an attitudinal thing as much as a legal thing. Would I sell black powder to a neighbor? Well, since i don't have the requisite license, i'm not supposed to do anything other than burn it, but if it were one of my neighbors, i'd be glad to let him have a can for whatever i paid, because i can count on him to keep his mouth shut if anyone asked where he got the powder. My neighbor to the south would be told that i was fresh out, but if she wanted to hook up with some of her elitist leftie buddies, i'm sure that they could simply make some out of all the neat organic stuff they have on their summer places.

So, it's attitudinal: i have a bad attitude! And the rest of society's is moving, like an amoeba, to the waiting clutches of the Sarah Bray types, with the help of the lamestream media.

When did the timeline start? sometime in the Kennedy administration or very shortly thereafter (unless you count the Sullivan Act in New York which was passed and signed into law in 1911).

Perhaps the shopowner wanted to say that he was trying to make sure that everyone who purchased black powder (technically an explosive) was over the age of 21. Remember, he's probably no better at interpreting rules which were made to be enforced by petty bureaucrats who are not above deciding if they like you and then (if they decide otherwise) will persecute you to 'the fullest extent of the law' - which they write and which they interpret.

There... sorry about the rant this early in the day ... i need to climb down off my soapbox before i fall and get hurt ... hope this isn't too political - if so, my apologies.

 

[bigbore442001]

I agree with the attitude part. The same holds true with buying cold medicine over the counter.

I guess I grew up in a time when there was a bit more freedom,in some ways.

 

[Norinco]

A guy from TN was telling me that he bought blackpowder a few months ago and didn't get his drivers license recorded.

I bought it at Basspro not long ago and they photocopied by drivers license.

 

[biliff]

Hasn't started out here. Pretty much pay your money, get a "thanks for your business" and out the door.

 

[rabjr]

Been showing my license since high school when buying bp. Problem here is, very few shops carry it any more due to storage regulations so your lucky to have found a place.

 

[William O.]

This is not a federal regulation. State or local but it is not federal.

 

[Zonie]

It may not be a Federal or State requirement but when I buy black powder at the Winter Nationals here in Phoenix from the out of state guy who sells it he always requires me to record my address in his record book.

I always figured, "Well, it is classified as an explosive so I don't have a problem with filling out his form."

 

[dcriner]

In Illinois, I've had to show my state FOID card for buying blackpowder, and the seller makes a copy of it for his records. No need to show my driver's license. (What if you, for whatever legitimate reason, didn't have a DL? Maybe you ride public transit?) I'd be surprised if this were a federal requirement.
Doug

 

[Norinco]

Then you get a state issued ID at the DMV.

 

[trent/OH]

I work at the powder magazine at the National Shoots for the NMLRA. I had to go through a background check in order to volunteer my time to do so, but I love working the magazine.
Anyway, every customer must present a photo ID and prove their membership. It doesn't have to be a drivers license. Often it's a military ID.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

No problems in PA where I buy mine :idunno: .

Probably a state thing :idunno: .

Dave

 

[deseeb2001]

I haven't heard of that requirement in this area, then again the last place around here that sold actual black powder closed up right before I came into possession of my rifle :shake: :idunno:

 

[arcticap]

Recording a person's ID would protect the seller if someone tried to claim he sold them a bad can of powder that blew up their gun or caused injury.
Someone recently posted about how they bought some Goex powder that was mislabeled with the wrong granulation. It was 3F powder in a can that was labeled as containing 2F.
He told Goex and brought it back to the store and the whole lot of it was going to be sent back.
Mistakes can happen and it does help to protect the seller from liability.
Also, if a person or child were to construct a pipe bomb and there was ever an injury or an arrest, then no one could claim that he negligently sold it to them.

 

[sepiatone]

Back when I lived in California I never had to show it. Now that I buy online, they ask for a copy that is kept on file.

 

[RBK]

Hello there MSW!
I am from the south and, you and I are a lot
alike.
A lot alike! :grin:

Anyway, fewer and fewer sellers of BP here in the
south. Must order from the interwebs.
You would think they were transporting moon rocks with the paperwork and hassle they put you thru!

 

[Jason Lewis]

i bought some in kentucky once, the only thing the gunshop owner asked me was, "are you gonna blow a stump up with it?" apparently there's a real problem with that there.

 

[MSW]

this is no b.s. - there's a small box in the old hardware store (which has squeaky floors and a pressed tin ceiling and those little boxes with every imaginable screw and washer) and in the box was once dynamite. Folks bought the stuff and blew stumps, unless they were blowing ledge, which we have in great quantity here in southern Vermont and southwestern New Hampshire. (to tamp the hole for blowing ledge, lower your fused charge to the bottom and fill the whole mess with water: no blasting mats back then).

the local sheep shearing fellow told me what the box was all about, and he bough dynamite there until they quit carrying it. Used to be that they wouldn't sell it to you if you were underage (their call), or if they thought you might be drunk, or too stupid to use the stuff.

i guess that now, we're all underage and too stupid to use anything other than a pencil, and we'd better be cool about the pencil- it is a sharp object and somebody might get hurt.

sometimes i just loose it completely, and i run around my driveway carrying a pair of scissors. I never did put anybody's eye out (including my own) but once i did get this wicked bad leg cramp.

OK- that's the updated tirade for today- back to the boring stuff.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yeah, we all became "Stupid" and irresponsible after the 1968 Gun Control Act was passed by Congress. It passed on a very narrow vote after someone bombed a lab building in Madison, Wisconsin, killing some fellow working in the building late that night. Provisions restricting the shipment of black powder were added ON THE FLOOR of the Senate, after someone claimed that black powder was used in the bomb. Actually, it was one of the successful Fertilizer/kerosene ignition car(van) bombs ever used here in the USA. They lied about it, just so they could get away with calling us all stupid and irresponsible.

Remember that before you vote for any incumbent member of Congress(House and Senate) again. Every current member of Congress has had the opportunity to introduce legislation to get rid of that law, but hasn't. One of my best friends growing up worked on a family farm with his uncle when he was only 14 years old, and often drove over to a supplier to buy dynamite and caps for blasting stumps with his uncle. He could charge the items but had to sign for the igniter( a box with a plunger that turned a motor to create the sparks to ignite the blasting caps, (just like you saw in the movie, Bridge Over the River Kwai) he "borrowed" and returned after they finished the blasting.