Chokes or no Chokes for Turkey Hunting

[Mike in FL]

Wow.

 

[Rob M.]

a properly jug choked muzzle loader will shoot tighter patterns than a modern gun. I have built guns that will take turks at 50 yards. And you can still shoot round ball out of them. I've been doing g this stuff for three decades.

D@mn !!

 

[Mike in FL]

D@mn !!

BUT, with respect, if said jug choke is on a flintlock, why not use a modern gun.edit? I can understand those hunters using a scoped inline percussion guns because their motive is the extra hunting time, but choking a traditional smoothie that uses a flint for ignition sort of defeats the reason for buying an expensive flintlock fowler. I mean to ask if the historic value is not destroyed with that improvement. Although it can't be seen, it's still there in the barrel and on your mind. sort of like a Snickers bar in your possible bag or s synthetic ramrod or plastic shot cups. I'm referring to a hunter's actual time in the woods, not his preparation for the outing or the vehicle he used to get there.
That's just me though. I try hard to not have anything about my person that a woodsman in 1740 didn't have. For me, when I walk into the woods and get out of sight of my truck, I am in the 18th Century. Ain't I weird?

 

[Rob M.]

BUT, with respect, if said jug choke is on a flintlock, why not use a modern gun.edit? I can understand those hunters using a scoped inline percussion guns because their motive is the extra hunting time, but choking a traditional smoothie that uses a flint for ignition sort of defeats the reason for buying an expensive flintlock fowler. I mean to ask if the historic value is not destroyed with that improvement. Although it can't be seen, it's still there in the barrel and on your mind. sort of like a Snickers bar in your possible bag or s synthetic ramrod or plastic shot cups. I'm referring to a hunter's actual time in the woods, not his preparation for the outing or the vehicle he used to get there.
That's just me though. I try hard to not have anything about my person that a woodsman in 1740 didn't have. For me, when I walk into the woods and get out of sight of my truck, I am in the 18th Century. Ain't I weird?

You sound awesome !!

 

[Eric Krewson]

I build my guns to please me, after dusting off 6 gobblers with my Gustomski trade gun (terrible pattern) and not killing any of them I built a jug choked 12ga English fowler that would get the job done. Unfortunately, life get in the way some times, our leased land (great turkey hunting) sold, my health faded, I had a hip replaced that limited my mobility and my fowler has never had a turkey I would shoot (one small jake) in front of it. I have had gobblers snooker me and catch me, this was on a friend's farm that seldom had any turkeys on it, he closed the land off for hunting in later years.

I am weird also; my persona is a farmer in the 30s or 40s who likes to hunt and uses the old flintlock his great grandpa left over the fireplace when he passed on. I don't wear camo and use a call I made out of box turtle shell. We all settle in at a different niche in this sport, this is mine.

My main satisfaction is my fowler is a scratch build, my second build, it took me over a year to make and I am dang proud of it. The rear sight is to make sure the ball and shot go where they are supposed to go in the heat of the battle. I am sure the thread counters will find fault with this as well, I didn't build my gun to please them, just me.

It shoots round balls really well. I he ducked on the first shot and I spined him, the neck shot was a finisher at 25 yards. I didn't want to mess up any meat, a .700 ball cuts a wide path and destroys anything in the way.

It was a long process making this gun, I don't want to ever inlet this type of buttplate again, never!

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

My persona is a 66 year old man that lives in Iowa in 2023. I like shooting on the wing for pheasants and quail. I like to kill instead of cripple, hence the jug choke. Also when I was younger my persona was a 30- 50ish guy shooting skeet and sporting clays in competition where if you don't have choke you're going to come in dead azz last.

 

[Mike in FL]

I only meant to say how my brain works but not to suggest anyone do or think like me..I am no one. I do things my way and others do it their way. History doesn't change and everyone is happy.

 

[Pete453]

Another jug choke suggestion here

Here is a load I developed at 25 yards with my Kibler .58
View attachment 216356View attachment 216357

And yes, it’s highly effective on gobblers. This was from a couple days ago.View attachment 216358View attachment 216359

That's a beautiful gun and bird, WOW!!!

 

[Pete453]

I posted this already, but this was out of my 50 cal flintlock smooth rifle, no choke. The load was 40 grs 3f, lubed Durofelt wads, 3 thin card wads, brown paper shot cup holding 50 grs of #4 shot, thin overshot card, at 20 paces. Clay pigeon for reference. That's a turkey load.

 

[Mike in FL]

I posted this already, but this was out of my 50 cal flintlock smooth rifle, no choke. The load was 40 grs 3f, lubed Durofelt wads, 3 thin card wads, brown paper shot cup holding 50 grs of #4 shot, thin overshot card, at 20 paces. Clay pigeon for reference. That's a turkey load.View attachment 280735

Yes! It CAN be done without resorting to the not traditional choke. Choking your flintlock is an unnecessary shortcut to achieving what turkey hunters seem to need. Spend some time and powder and components at the range. To choke a flintlock smooth bore is sacrilege. Not really, but you know what I mean. If you need a choke, get a modern gun, because changing from traditional is the same thing.
Guess what? I shall shut up now; I've previously stated my case on this issue and can gain nothing via repetition. And hey, it is your journey, not mine. My opinions are not valuable to anyone else. Just keep shooting v that black stuff.

 

[Blackpowderart]

Choke em if you got em!

 

[Robin101]

I don't understand those that insist on being historically correct thinking chokes are okay, but plastic shot cups are a no no.
Robin

 

[Brokennock]

I don't understand those that insist on being historically correct thinking chokes are okay, but plastic shot cups are a no no.
Robin

I don't see it as historically correct for most of the muzzleloading period either.
I guess the argument could be made that choke was at least becoming available at a time while original muzzleloaders were still in use. Plastic anything, much less wads/shotcups didn't come about until well into the cartridge era.

Also, I think for some folks, something like a jug choke is like hiding your modern prescription pills in a perios container at a historical event. The pills are a modern solution to an age old problem, but they aren't hc/pc,,,, the container hides them while you still get the benefit. A choke isn't visible to the public, or most fellow history buffs, but improves the guns performance to deal with the modern hunting situation. While cylinder bore guns can be loaded to shoot effective turkey killing patterns, the range will still be quite limited. This isn't an insurmountable hurdle of hunting private land someplace where the birds are not heavily pressured. I don't think our turkey hunting situation is the same as it was in the 1700's/1800's, I also don't think there was the same passionate dedicated turkey hunting then. While there os a brief period in the spring wherein the birds seem almost stupid and will come in to a good call,,, they have also been "educated" over time and will run from a poor call or the wrong call. Their desire to breed doesn't negate their keen eyesight, or the suspiciousness of birds that have been shot at before. On essence, I don't think getting wild turkeys to withing cylinder bore muzzleloader ranges is as easy as it might have been 200 years ago. The choke deals with this in a manner that is relevant to the end of the muzzleloading period and without a shot pouch full of plastic.

 

[Mike in FL]

I don't see it as historically correct for most of the muzzleloading period either.
I guess the argument could be made that choke was at least becoming available at a time while original muzzleloaders were still in use. Plastic anything, much less wads/shotcups didn't come about until well into the cartridge era.

Also, I think for some folks, something like a jug choke is like hiding your modern prescription pills in a perios container at a historical event. The pills are a modern solution to an age old problem, but they aren't hc/pc,,,, the container hides them while you still get the benefit. A choke isn't visible to the public, or most fellow history buffs, but improves the guns performance to deal with the modern hunting situation. While cylinder bore guns can be loaded to shoot effective turkey killing patterns, the range will still be quite limited. This isn't an insurmountable hurdle of hunting private land someplace where the birds are not heavily pressured. I don't think our turkey hunting situation is the same as it was in the 1700's/1800's, I also don't think there was the same passionate dedicated turkey hunting then. While there os a brief period in the spring wherein the birds seem almost stupid and will come in to a good call,,, they have also been "educated" over time and will run from a poor call or the wrong call. Their desire to breed doesn't negate their keen eyesight, or the suspiciousness of birds that have been shot at before. On essence, I don't think getting wild turkeys to withing cylinder bore muzzleloader ranges is as easy as it might have been 200 years ago. The choke deals with this in a manner that is relevant to the end of the muzzleloading period and without a shot pouch full of plastic.

Please don't misunderstand because I'm for everyone doing what they please as far as PC goes, but i personally feel that anything we do that fundamentally changes our flintlock guns to change or improve how they perform defeats the purpose of doing it like our forefathers did. Hidden from view or not, it is "cheating." BUT, I myself do some thing that make it EASIER, but not functionally different. An example is pre-loaded load components that keep me from rummaging through my bag for stuff. My justification is that a second shot at a turkey is seldom if ever possible and that faster reloading doesn't help me succeed. Chokes for someone familiar with flintlock smoothbores know that choking drastically improves their pattern and range. Might as well use a modern shotgun because choking a muzzleloader means you cannot honestly afterwards say or think you did it with a flintlock just like they did back then, because you did not. All that said, it is your hunt and you are entitled do go at it the way YOU want to.

 

[SOLANCO]

Has anyone with an original flint or percussion double ever checked and compared the muzzles with a choke gauge? I'd be especially interested in the findings on European guns.

 

[Robin101]

I agree Mike, hunt the way you want and enjoy the experience.
It was just one of those idle thoughts that occured to me, kinda like people that are against cannablism but are all for organ transplants.
Robin

 

[Trigger]

More than one type person's here.

It's a turkey and choked problem... cylinders are my fav choke im into shotguns.

I chose without at first... because turkey was a second. It's nice that they can and you can get them on cylinder range.

I went 10ga because it's was the only one left lol and I figure everything is easyer with larger bore cleaning loading etc. short shot colum pattern deal. I always like a heavier gun. Double bead. Sling swivels.

Being only muzzloader. A good Shotgun was needed.

 

[Blackpowderart]

Please don't misunderstand because I'm for everyone doing what they please as far as PC goes, but i personally feel that anything we do that fundamentally changes our flintlock guns to change or improve how they perform defeats the purpose of doing it like our forefathers did. Hidden from view or not, it is "cheating." BUT, I myself do some thing that make it EASIER, but not functionally different. An example is pre-loaded load components that keep me from rummaging through my bag for stuff. My justification is that a second shot at a turkey is seldom if ever possible and that faster reloading doesn't help me succeed. Chokes for someone familiar with flintlock smoothbores know that choking drastically improves their pattern and range. Might as well use a modern shotgun because choking a muzzleloader means you cannot honestly afterwards say or think you did it with a flintlock just like they did back then, because you did not. All that said, it is your hunt and you are entitled do go at it the way YOU want to.

If you want to be PC or hc you need to walk to your hunting destination or ride a horse. You shouldn't be buying your powder online or using this online forum to obtain information. You should only talk to people you meet on your travels. No cell phone maps or GPS. Surely people shooting powder from overseas was not hc... Swiss? I think not.
I just want people to have fun. We're already in a niche, don't push others away... if there isn't enough of us, there won't be a market
For them to make products for us. We are already having shortages. Get out there and make smoke!

 

[Brokennock]

If you want to be PC or hc you need to walk to your hunting destination or ride a horse. You shouldn't be buying your powder online or using this online forum to obtain information.

If this isn't the dumbest,,, way too often repeated argument,,, against historical accuracy ,, I'm not sure what is. So sick of hearing/reading it I want to puke.
It's just ignorant and myopic.

Are the people who work at Colonial Williamsburg and other historic sites fired if they take a car, or the bus, to work? Should they be? What about the people who volunteer at other historical sites that aren't open all the time, maybe just for events on certain days?

Give me a break. If you (general use "you" not anyone specific) don't care about historical accuracy, or are too lazy to put in the work and the research, or just plain can't be bothered,,, that's fine, it really is,,,, but there is no need to deficate on those who do and make these stupid comments and criticisms.

 

[Trigger]

I kinda don't like being cold so I could dress the part and be cool with it lol

I think that's a going back in time description and you could just do that if it's that big a deal...

We had a small farm yard in the city.. lol rabbits birds chickens veggies apple tree.