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Can you ship a percussion Sharps through the USPS?

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I have a friend that owns a UPS store. He tells me it's UPS corporate regulations that require shipping to an ffl.
Keep in mind Shiloh is a federal licensed manufacturer that ships rifles on a daily basis.
The OP has already paid the deposit, and the balance due on the rifle when it went into production. So the cancel the check thing left the gate along time ago.
Wondering if the mrs, found the credit card receipts and started asking questions....
 
The regulations for the post office are as follows:
----------------------------------

432 Mailability​

432.1 General​

Mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, all of the provisions of postal law in 18 U.S.C. 1715, and all other all federal and state regulations and local ordinances affecting the movement of firearms. The following also applies:

  1. The Postal Service may require the mailer to open parcels containing firearms or air guns or give written certification that the weapon is unloaded and not concealable.
  2. Short-barreled rifles or shotguns that can be concealed on the person are nonmailable.
  3. No markings of any kind that indicate the nature of the contents may be placed on the outside wrapper or container of any mailpiece containing firearms.
  4. Mailable matter must be properly and securely packaged within the general packaging requirements in DMM 601.1-7.
  5. Except for shipments between licensed dealers, manufacturers, or importers, all regulated firearms must be mailed using a USPS product or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

432.2 Handguns​

Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in this section, after the filing of an affidavit or statement described in 432.22 or 432.24, and are subject to the following:

  1. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3.
  2. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2, which are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest, may be accepted for mailing between governmental museums without regard to the restrictions provided for handguns in 432.21 through 432.24 and Exhibit 432.25.
  3. Air guns (see 431.6) that do not fall within the definition of firearms under 431.1 and are capable of being concealed on a person are mailable, but must include Adult Signature service under DMM 503.8. Mailers must comply with all applicable state and local regulations.
  4. Parts of handguns are mailable, except for handgun frames, receivers or other parts or components regulated under Chapter 44, Title 18, U.S.C.
  5. Mailers are also subject to applicable restrictions by governments of a state, territory, or district.

432.3 Rifles and Shotguns​

Except under 431.2, unloaded rifles and shotguns are mailable. Mailers must comply with the rules and regulations under 27 CFR, Part 478, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and not ineligible for mailing. The following conditions also apply:

  1. Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when intended for delivery within the same state of mailing. These items must:
    1. Bear a “Return Service Requested” endorsement.
    2. Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.
  2. A rifle or shotgun owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner‘s state of residence by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the other state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mailpieces must:
    1. Be addressed to the owner.
    2. Include the “in the care of” endorsement immediately preceding the name of the applicable temporary custodian.
    3. Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.
    4. Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.
  3. Mailing of rifles and shotguns between licensed FFL dealers, manufacturers, or importers are not restricted. The Postal Service recommends that these items be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.
  4. Rifles and shotguns may be mailed by a non-FFL owner domestically to a FFL dealer, manufacturer, or importer in any state. These items must be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.
  5. Except as described in 432.3a, licensed curio and relic collectors may mail firearms meeting the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 domestically to licensed FFL curio and relic collectors in any state. These items must be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.
  6. Firearms meeting the definition of a rifle or shotgun under 431.4 which are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum, which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest, may be accepted for mailing without restriction when mailed between governmental museums.
  7. Air guns (see 431.6) that do not fall within the definition of firearms under 431.1a are mailable. A shipment containing an air gun with a muzzle velocity of 400 or more feet per second (fps) must include an adult signature service under DMM 503.8. Mailers must additionally comply with all applicable state and local regulations.

431.3 Antique Firearm​

Antique firearm means any muzzle loading rifle/shotgun/pistol, which is designed to use black powder or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition (except those that incorporate a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof); or any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured on or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

  1. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.
  2. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
-------------------------------


When mailing I had to find and print the regulations online and take them with me to the post office. I never bothered talking to the person at the front desk, I asked for the postmaster and told them exactly what I was doing. The peon's at the front desk ended up calling the post master anyway and trying to educate them was an exercise in having the same conversation twice.

My experience with FedEx and UPS for long guns left much to be desired, so even though tedious I used the Post Office. Handguns on the other hand I was forced into using UPS.

Hope that helps.
 
Exactly. The OP entered the agreement, then complains?
Honest, if it was misrepresented, or not understood, I get that.
To me it's simple, honor the agreement or don't.
Why complain about shipment that has been explained?
Nothing in the agreement says anything about having to ship to an FFL.
 
I have a friend that owns a UPS store. He tells me it's UPS corporate regulations that require shipping to an ffl.
Keep in mind Shiloh is a federal licensed manufacturer that ships rifles on a daily basis.
The OP has already paid the deposit, and the balance due on the rifle when it went into production. So the cancel the check thing left the gate along time ago.
Wondering if the mrs, found the credit card receipts and started asking questions....
LOL, no. I pay myself first and do what I want with my money.

You guys are absolutely right that when buying a $2600 rifle with $150 shipping another $45 for an FFL fee is small potatoes. However, one thing I absolutely hate is feeling like I'm being nickel and dimed. I would rather pay a higher total fee upfront then get nickel and dimed along the way.

But, I also know that these percussion long arms don't require shipping through an FFL. I know this because Dixie Gun Works ships them via UPS and USPS right to your door. Now I'm sure what is going on is the same nonsense that Cabela's got caught up in when they got sued for selling a black powder revolver to a felon who then committed murder with it. Now, Cabela's / Bass Pro simply don't ship mail order black powder at all. They are in-store only.

I think it's important for people to push back against these kinds of policies when they are encountered.
 
Today I received a call from Shiloh Sharps that my percussion 1863 Shiloh Sharps was ready for shipping.

However, they said that it had to be shipped to an FFL.

When I asked whose rules this was, eventually the lady said it was UPS's rules. I said you could ship through USPS and she said, "If that was an option we would already be doing it."

I have shipped many percussion arms through the USPS without dealing with an FFL.

Dixie Gun Works sells the percussion 1859 Sharps and ships via USPS and UPS without requiring an FFL. I called them up and they said so.

Does anyone know why an 1863 Shiloh Sharps can't be shipped via USPS?

The Shiloh Sharps web site says:

https://shilohrifle.com/ordering-info-and-instructions/
"All rifles are shipped in a UPS approved Doskocil® gun case and will be shipped UPS only either ground - 3 day select, 2nd day or next day. Absolutely no U.S. mail. The cost of the gun case will be $90.00 plus the cost of shipping."

So I guess they are adamant on not using USPS. However, Dixie Gun Works also ships via UPS and still don't require an FFL.
Well, unless the USPS here in our town is lying to me, I have had no issues with sending or receiving black powder arms through them. To date I have received one Pedersoli Charleville musket, one Pedersoli 1859 Sharps, one flintlock pistol, two Colts (1853 Navy and 1860 Army) and sent a similar number. These transactions were to/from both private citizens and to companies over the recent years and up to last week. It sounds like there is a communication gap. Either at their USPS end or ignorance in the Shiloh shipping department (or both!). That being said, if it's company policy, I guess you'll just have to lump it (or deal with another company)
 
Today I received a call from Shiloh Sharps that my percussion 1863 Shiloh Sharps was ready for shipping.

However, they said that it had to be shipped to an FFL.

When I asked whose rules this was, eventually the lady said it was UPS's rules. I said you could ship through USPS and she said, "If that was an option we would already be doing it."

I have shipped many percussion arms through the USPS without dealing with an FFL.

Dixie Gun Works sells the percussion 1859 Sharps and ships via USPS and UPS without requiring an FFL. I called them up and they said so.

Does anyone know why an 1863 Shiloh Sharps can't be shipped via USPS?

The Shiloh Sharps web site says:

https://shilohrifle.com/ordering-info-and-instructions/
"All rifles are shipped in a UPS approved Doskocil® gun case and will be shipped UPS only either ground - 3 day select, 2nd day or next day. Absolutely no U.S. mail. The cost of the gun case will be $90.00 plus the cost of shipping."

So I guess they are adamant on not using USPS. However, Dixie Gun Works also ships via UPS and still don't require an FFL.
Maybe it's company policy due to all the red tape nowadays. So, factor in the cost of paying a FFL to receive it; anywhere from what, 40 to 60 or even a hundred bucks, as I've seen.
 
cancel the order, void the check, block the CC payment.
@ $2,600 they want to slap you with another $45 for their comfort(?)
Yes they can ship different.
It's what they want to do. I get that part.
It's not what you want to do, I get that part too.
Your topic is about what you want to do. Not what is right or wrong with shipping.
Shipping is the sellers choice whether it's liked or not.
Make your choice, do you want the rifle from the(that) seller or not? It's that simple.
It ain't rocket science, or even needful debate, two parties agree or not,,,(?)
They may have been "advised" by their lawyers, don't forget!
 
A matter of Shiloh policy, it seems. From their site

All rifles are shipped in a UPS approved Doskocil® gun case and will be shipped UPS only either ground - 3 day select, 2nd day or next day. Absolutely no U.S. mail. The cost of the gun case will be $90.00 plus the cost of shipping.

NO U.S. mail shipping will be accepted on rifles and if you have chosen to dis-regard our instructions, there will be a service charge of $50 for any rifle that is shipped thru U.S. mail.
 
I shipped a Shiloh percussion carbine a while back. It arrived damaged but they didn't give me any lip about an ffl when I first sent it. I can't remember whether it was UPS or Fedex

Have had the same issues with a GRRW.CA rile shipped by FedEx, it was insured. Got damaged and FedEx covered the repair cost and shipping.

.
 
before a lot of drama ask your local ffl. what they would charge. they dont have to call it in . so maybe $0.00 or a small fee. ask em. if your a regular there , likely free.

I use my local gun shop (FFL Dealer), he charges me $25.00 shipping and $25.00 FFL paperwork (I get that free because of having a concealed weapons permit for my state).
 
I have had several firearms shipped to my FFL and the only ones he charges for is the 4473 and background check. Arms that don't require them he never charges me.
Now I don’t know- does your FFL friend HAVE to enter all firearms in his book, even ones that are pre 1898 and muzzleloading replicas? Even without the background check?
 
Now I don’t know- does your FFL friend HAVE to enter all firearms in his book, even ones that are pre 1898 and muzzleloading replicas? Even without the background check?
Mine just laughs about what some are made to do, or think they have to do. Not a firearm, no form or paperwork to use, no background check….. just a text to come and get my package.
 
Now I don’t know- does your FFL friend HAVE to enter all firearms in his book, even ones that are pre 1898 and muzzleloading replicas? Even without the background check?
When still in business a Fed Agent that checked my books gave me some baloney about registering all firearms, muzzleloaders that were pre 1898 and muzzleloaders that were replicas along with modern guns. I told him to keep sales straight it was easier if my employees did this so I knew what was going on. He gave this some thought then said he understood and to continue doing so and made note of this in his records.

I figured I would hear about my way of keeping sales straight in the Feds book, I did get several calls not from the Feds but other shop owners that were told about my system of record keeping (by the agent that checked our Federal Firearms books). I'm guessing he liked the idea.
 
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