camp chairs

[tenngun]

To make a true camp for a mm,long hunter or anyone travaling on the frontier that was not wealthy or member of an army group on the move,would have sat on the ground or a log.With few exceptions chairs have no place in a civilian camp.But...most of us are older then the men found on the frontier 2 centuries ago.We are in camp as part of vacation.All our camps are a bit more posh then a real camp would be.When I'm treking Im minimalist.I'm a little looser in camp with a thicker bed and foood in a covered insulated bag.Right now I don't have a camp chair and am leaning toward making a folding stool. We do need to be forgiving here however and think about old backs and general achs and pains.The two piece camp chair used so often is not hc,but only slight less hc then an early stool design in a hunters camp.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Fact is, no 'authentic' or juried event is true to the time supposedly being represented. How many 'vous back in the day had the participants arriving in pick-up trucks. Or participants wearing glasses, or having titanium replacment hips, or amalgam filled teeth, etc.? And, we certainly cannot go out every day and shoot our own fresh meat. We do what we can the best we can. And, for the critics, I did say I stayed away from rules I was not able to comply with.

 

[Black Hand]

Fact is, no 'authentic' or juried event is true to the time supposedly being represented. How many 'vous back in the day had the participants arriving in pick-up trucks. Or participants wearing glasses, or having titanium replacment hips, or amalgam filled teeth, etc.?

No offense, but you are taking this far out of perspective. Yes, some things we can't change (see above), but we are in control of the other aspects such as the documented facts. Each person will decide and make allowances as they see fit.

MY GOAL is to replicate the persons/places/things in/at a PARTICULAR time in history. This means my clothes/gear are of proper materials and construction, the food I carry, and the way I interact with my environment is PC/HC for my period of interest. This means very little cotton, proper styling for clothing/shoes/moccasins, hand-sewn instead of machine-sewn, wool blankets, braintan/oil-tan, flintlocks, hand-knit socks and no fire-iron kits, Lodge dutch ovens, fantasy knives, rubber boots, synthetic long underpants, "apple pie", loading blocks, short-starters, etc..

It is MY WAY of doing it. If you disagree, great. I'M NOT FORCING YOU TO DO IT MY WAY!

On the other hand, we can all are capable of learning and using the logic "I've always done it this way" is a poor approach. I've made many changes while I've been doing this, and will continue to make more in an effort to get closer to my/the historical "ideal" of: If I was to be transported to the 1760s, would I stand out or blend in? I strive for the latter...

 

[mmahlock]

You might want to consider something like this style for light weight and ease of transport.

Folding Chair

 

[Rifleman1776]

I probably shouldn't even get started on this subject......it is way too subjective.
I have been hurt and insulted too many times by people who said "that ain't authentic". Usually those people have used oats for brains but, too often, are in charge of allowing or turning away folks who want to participate. I once wanted to join a well known Rev. Riflemans outfit. I was sent a list of requirements. My gear met all except one. The shirt style required was nothing like I had ever seen or researched. When I inquired the guy in charge of approving new members said it didn't matter, he made the decisions, like it or not, documented or not, what he said was all that mattered. Now, his claim on that shirt style being "correct" is accepted by many as gospel even though it is far from historically accurate. To this day I'm :cursing:
I'll stop before I start telling you how my wife was insulted. :cursing: :cursing: :cursing:

 

[Claude Mathis]

Just because there isn't some sort of documentation to support the authenticity of an item, doesn't mean someone couldn't have hand made it. Let's take these chairs for example, was there any tech that hadn't been invented yet? Are they made out of materials that weren't used? The answer to both these questions is no. So as far as I'm concerned, There is no way to definitively say that something isn't PC if it was possible for them to have been made.

That's true. You cannot prove a negative. You cannot prove something did not exist or happen.

Allow me to place my tongue in my cheek - Using your logic, you could show up at any event wearing a Sombrero, Roman sandals and a toga, and carrying a sword from Lord of the Rings. All those materials were "available".

Most reenactors take a different approach than that. :wink:

 

[Claude Mathis]

Fact is, no 'authentic' or juried event is true to the time supposedly being represented. How many 'vous back in the day had the participants arriving in pick-up trucks.

As far as I know, traveling to the location has never been considered part of an event. The event starts after you arrive.

 

[Billnpatti]

As I sit here reading all of the arguing back and forth about whether or not a stinkin' chair is PC or HC, etc. is why I got out of reenacting. I would go to one juried event and they would rave about how well and historically made my uniform was and how carefully hand stitched the seams were. Then I would go to another event and be told that since there was some machine stitching (not visible without careful searching in areas not visable from the outside) that the garment was not correct and I could not wear it. I was left scrounging around finding something "acceptable" to wear or go home. Our group was sponsored by a historical society and museum and they were very careful about what we wore. I knew it to be correct and just got tired of the hassle from some self appointed "expert". The last time it happened, I just gave my "Commanding Officer" my resignation, a list of my gear and told him to post it for sale. I was done. I still shoot my muzzleloaders and have a lot of fun doing it but I no longer have any urge to play dress up.

 

[Black Hand]

Fact is, no 'authentic' or juried event is true to the time supposedly being represented. How many 'vous back in the day had the participants arriving in pick-up trucks.

As far as I know, traveling to the location has never been considered part of an event. The event starts after you arrive.

Neither have "wearing glasses, or having titanium replacment hips, or amalgam filled teeth, etc.?" been common issues, ever. The only thing people might be asked is to have frames that are PC/HC (or to wear contacts).

 

Fact is, no 'authentic' or juried event is true to the time supposedly being represented. How many 'vous back in the day had the participants arriving in pick-up trucks.

As far as I know, traveling to the location has never been considered part of an event. The event starts after you arrive.

Neither have "wearing glasses, or having titanium replacement hips, or amalgam filled teeth, etc.?" been common issues, ever. The only thing people might be asked is to have frames that are PC/HC (or to wear contacts).

The old "driving to the event" and other ridiculous examples are used by some to try and show that NOTHING is HC/PC, so why bother. It's really just a cheap shot and sour grapes.

 

[Rod Lassey]

The "driving to the event" was kind of ironic, considering I know a fair number of guys & gals that ride horses to events, in some case literally hudreds of miles. I've done it myself a number of times in the past, and hope to do so again, although I haven't travelled the miles some have ---- I've had the pleasure of camping along side Jeff Hengesbaugh & Wes Housler, those guys have more miles on horseback than most anyone else I know.

Just to let folks know that there's more to camping than the 'drive & dump'....and sometimes the real adventure is getting to the event, rather than the event itself.


Rod

 

[tenngun]

I have a little brain tan and some hand sewn,only use wool blankets.At my time cotton was avalable.I think we have agreeed to disagree about loading blocks and short startes.
I think we should try to be as authntic as possible.But we do come back that most of us are older playing what was mostly younger men.And we are spoiled by the time we live in.
Most of us are bigger then avrage for the past times,even if we are not over wieght.many of us have health issues,and corrected vision.
I dont use my cast iron in camp any more,I would encourge people to repalce cooking pots as they can, and to relace yellow deer skin as they can,or invest in linnen as they can.
On the other hand I think we have to make allownces for people who are trying and people who are using somthing non hc for comfort in camp.If it hurts to do the sport you might stay away.I would rather see a person 70% right and at camp then a person miss because hes not 90% right

 

[necchi]

To no one in particular.
I think this thread really went in a bad direction.
It wasn't posted in Historically Accurate Equipment or Primary Documentation

 

[tenngun]

To no one in particular.
I think this thread really went in a bad direction.
It wasn't posted in Historically Accurate Equipment or Primary Documentation

I think the general feeling of posters is to be as hc as we can. none of us can make the grade but the fun is to keep trying,even if we are all Sissipus.We all have to draw a line some where.Is it ok to have a hand sewn linnen shirt and a machine sewed cotton tent?Is it ok to use a stainless steel canteen thats been aged.I doubt Bridger or kenton carried a candle lantren,even though they would be found in most homes of the time. Are they ok in camp?
No one wants to see lawn chairs in camp,or wood adarandaks either.My self I dont have any chair.will make a stool when next I get to it, but I cant get my nose out of joint over a two piece chair.Is it HC?No. Is it less Hc then equipment most people would not have had in camps back in the day?Equipment that was in use but not carrired afield unless you were wealthy or had army wagons to carry your things.
The beam in anyones eye is could your camp be packed on a horse with room to spare for a years worth of supplies?

 

[necchi]

Yeah but,,
That's all based on the assumption that everyone is doing Rocky Mountain Fur Trade.
So according to some,, everyone has to follow their source of documentation that applies to that period and forego all else.

It's kind of hard to be a Mountain Man here in Minnesota, at the same time fur trade is a full 200yrs older than the Mountain Man period.
It's a lot easier to pack a years worth of supplies in a Birch Bark canoe that'll carry 7 thousand pounds than it is with a few pack horses or mules.

I respect those that delve into the documentation research, it's takes a lot of time, devotion and can be very difficult not to mention expensive.
At the same time I have seen members here and folks at Rendezvous that will adamantly argue/dispute others presented documentation.
It always get's to be the same tired old arguments,
"My source is better than yours!"
"Don't tell me because I know!"

Then come the banter of insults;
"Clown suit"
"Dress up"
"PC cop"
"Thread counter"
"Wanna Be"

Like I said, this thread went wrong.
The OP just asked about a simple camp chair and this has become another one of the same old tired insults and arguments threads
:shake:

I use to attend one Juried event, I used the proper gear right down to the glasses. It simply isn't as fun as other events.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Like I said, this thread went wrong.
The OP just asked about a simple camp chair and this has become another one of the same old tired insults and arguments threads
:shake:

We see the same pattern when threads take a turn.

The original poster mentions an item - someone says it’s “not Historically Correct” - the OP says, “That’s ok, I don’t care”. That should be the end of it, BUT”¦

Others have to chime in with all the bad experiences they’ve had at events, toss around terms like “thread-counters” and “stitch Nazis” and the thread becomes the same old Us vs Them. In the end, nobody has their mind changed and all it does is create animosity among the members.

Members need to keep in mind the difference in a “Rondy” and a “more strict” event and let people choose their own level of involvement. If people don't like the rules at a given event (too strict/not strict enough) - don't attend. Let others do as they wish.

 

[tenngun]

I've been going to vous since the 70s although family concerns has made me miss a few years. In all that time I would say that most people at the event are working to be as hc as possible. The realities of life in the 21st cent keeps throwing roadblocks in our way. Our sport after all is a learning experience. We need to cut each other a little slack

 

[ohio ramrod]

Fact Is we are getting older and more artificial (hips, knees, etc.)When I started going to rendezvous I had two teenage boys and carried every thing in a 79 fairmount. Now I have a truck and trailer load. I use a raised all wooden Moore box . (ICE box) A raised brazier, a raised camp kitchen, An oak bed, two piece wooden chairs, and folding tables and several other items to make things better after two back surgeries, and a hip replacement. While all items were historical accurate some where, they were not common in the rocky mountains. Yet if I didn't take them I probably would not go due to health problems. While some juried events would not allow me in I did win the award for "best primitive camp" last year at the Oak ridge! :idunno:

 

[tenngun]

Idont know what you represent in your out fit.Based on what you discribe I wwould think it to be more then most frontiesman carred in the field.....But, my view toward your camp would be if your stuff was right for the time,did it go along with your out fit,were you using it in a way it was used?
69 years old is older then most frontiesman.When people had a chance to use the luxuries of the time they used them.
In the end I would much rather see a 18th century folding bed and table then not see you there.Did Kentons camp look like yours in 1775,did Meeks camp look like yours in 1835? Was your stuff right for the time,it sounds like the judges thought so.So in the end you get to be comfotable while enjoing our sport and stay true to the times even if you carry more fewforrah then was carried back then.

 

[mmahlock]

Here is another chair design you may want to consider.

Folding Chair

Here are a couple of photos of an original from 1825.




The original is not nearly as clunky or heavy as the one Townsend sells.