camp chairs

[Black Hand]

I have no problem with the use of these items in a large camp/rendezvous-type setting. I do have issues with the use of non-HC/PC versions where VISIBLE in a large camp/rendezvous-type setting.

It is simple to hide/disguise items such as coolers, which would not have been available. On the other hand, why use items that are not appropriate when appropriate versions are easily available/made?

It really is the small details that make the greatest difference between "good enough" and "great"...

 

[Rifleman1776]

Yet if I didn't take them I probably would not go due to health problems. While some juried events would not allow me in I did win the award for "best primitive camp" last year at the Oak ridge!

:applause: :bow: :v

 

[Loyalist Dave]

You can see some ideas on older chairs, albeit medieval, on this link, and it does show that the folding stool with a cloth seat, is very very old.

A three legged chair such as this one might be adapted to fold in a couple of ways. Not necessarily period correct, but I think tougher for a "judge" to lodge an objection, and if you need the back support, better than a folding stool.

LD

 

[Coot]

The issue as I see it is not whether someone needs or wants a chair. Yes, a longhunter or army private would not have had a chair in the field but if a chair is desired, a simple "borrowed from the farmstead or barracks" should be explanation enough. The "problem" is that when there are so many correct chairs to build or buy, that people go out of their way to make or bring an obviously incorrect chair.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The issue as I see it is not whether someone needs or wants a chair. Yes, a longhunter or army private would not have had a chair in the field but if a chair is desired, a simple "borrowed from the farmstead or barracks" should be explanation enough. The "problem" is that when there are so many correct chairs to build or buy, that people go out of their way to make or bring an obviously incorrect chair.

The OP wants:

folding wood camp chairs for RONNDY

Can you help him?

 

[Black Hand]

The OP wants: "folding wood camp chairs for RONNDY"

Can you help him?

I posted contact information at the very beginning of this thread.

Kootenai River Traders
Mark & Charlotte Morain
[email protected]

 

[Coot]

Pointing out the drawbacks of a given item IS helping out. Everyone is free to use or disregard advice re not only whether an item or practice is PC but in some cases whether it is safe. Better always to make an informed decision.

Re chairs, I use a pair of ladderbacks bought off ebay for the princely sum of $18 each. I also use folding stools that I make myself. A google image search for "George Washington Camp Stools" will show detailed plans. The stools do require some basic woodworking skills but took less time to make than I spent "defarbing" a commercially made "PC" stool (made with exposed phillips head screws, etc).

To buy ready made, Black Hand has already given a contact. Another is Van's Chairs ( www.vcr-inc.com ). His "medium chair"
is a slat type for $50 that will do at a rondy but is a type specifically prohibited at a number of juried events due to a lack of historical record. Van also offers a "low back canvas" chair for $60. I cannot personally vouch for it's authenticity but I have seen them at more than a few of the tighter events.

For me, the extra $10 is worth the future option of being able to attend a wider range of events and for easier trade or resale if getting out of the hobby. As always everyone is free to spend their money as they choose.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Thanks for the link. Lots of good stuff.

My response for the "you can't prove they didn't" claim is: They had the Wok in China for centuries, and European ships visited China for centuries, so lets all have stir fry in camp and tell everbody that Kung Pao Chicken is an authentic dish, for the technology, the materials, and the ingredients were all available....no?

Yes there is not one overall, surefire standard at events... and gee not all events are alike. Plus as more sources are uncovered what is not thought to be "authentic" as well as "common" may change (see the wire, two-tined fork for example).

Not everybody can trek or wants to do so, not everybody can or wants to go to a "primitive" event where there isn't any water or privvies provided, etc etc. Gee, people are different in their understandings of what is and isn't historic.

What some have pointed out in this thread is a chair that is specifically banned at many events. One of the events that I attend not only prohibits those chairs, it also prohibits tee pees/lodges and pyramid style tents.

I think it's helpful if a person asks about Item X, and we have who previous experience to tell them Item X is quite often forbidden at events.

How is it helpful to stay silent, let somebody drop a C note on a pair of chairs, only to find out that it was waste of money? One may complain that the standards at one or more events are incorrect, or poorly applied, but that money spent on the forbidden Item X is still wasted as the rules aren't changed by the complaints.

LD

 

[satx78247]

Still trying to "cover up for" yourself, I see.

NOTHING that I said was contradictory and frankly I think that you're smart enough to know that fact. Otoh, I also think that you're trying to mislead other readers.

GEN Lee's folding chair & mothers "ladies nursing rocker" are known to EXIST as "chairs" BUT there is NO description of what they looked like, as there is no description of either chair in any extant source.= All that the documentation says is "folding" & that could mean almost anything.

My problem with "thread counters", "stitch Nazis", "self-appointed experts", etc. is how SELF-important & HATEFUL that those people generally are AND that they all too frequently seem to enjoy making "new re-enactors" feel "small" and "foolish".
(Two years ago at a WBTS reenactment in MD, a group of "thread counters" started making "clever comments" to a brand new unit member and his wife about the uniforms and dresses that she had spent many hours sewing. - The wife ended up in tears AND neither person has returned to any reenactment since.)

IF an experienced re-enactor wants to say ANYTHING about HC subjects to anybody, it needs to be done KINDLY or not at all.
(Personally, I say nothing whatever about anyone's dress & gear at any event, as I'm far from perfect.)

yours, satx

 

[Black Hand]

The OP asked about chairs. I posted a vendor.

Not sure why you are trying to make this into something it isn't... The fact that you obviously have some axe to grind with someone else, is being projected onto me. What they did to you is NOT MY FAULT, so stop taking your frustration with them out on me.

To repeat myself - the fact that the chair you spoke of was mentioned in the general's journal IS DOCUMENTATION that the chair existed. That it was not described is another matter. Taking existing examples of folding chairs of the day and using them as inspiration to re-create a PC/HC chair is valid.

Someone else posted a picture of what he used. My comment was that slat chairs were not PC/HC. Then others decided to pile-on and take me to task for some perceived infraction of the "thread-counter" kind. I find it tiresome that it happens EVERY time someone even remotely touches on the topic of PC/HC. I have information that I freely share with everyone, with the sole purpose in helping others. You decide what to do with it.

Quit making enormous mountains from little tiny mole-hills. I get it, you and a few others don't care about being PC/HC. It doesn't mean others (or even the OP) do not.

As I've said every other time, do what you want your way.

 

[BillinOregon]

"I'm sorry too, Dimitri. Of course I'm sorry.
Don't say you're sorrier than I am Dimitri. I'm capable of being just as sorry as you.
OK then, we're both sorry."

President Merkin Muffley, "Dr. Strangelove"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T2uBeiNXAo

 

[satx78247]

AGREED 100%.

I would also add that the motto of our subculture should be: IF you choose to say nothing positive about other people's impressions, say NOTHING.

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

AGREED 100%. = MUCH of what "the experts" believe is based on their personal PREJUDICES, rather than documented facts.


yours, satx

 

[Black Hand]

All of this, and you haven't even remotely helped the OP with a chair. All you've done is use this thread as a personal pulpit to spew your dislike of anyone who has any interest in PC/HC.

As to the rest - you can't even follow your most recent "advice". So far, all I've seen you write is personal opinion, though I will agree that you certainly are an expert in expressing your decidedly negative opinion about anything PC/HC.

 

[satx78247]

IF you go back and read the early part of this thread, you will see that I suggested to the OP that he consult the index of WOODEN BOAT magazine (which are available "on line") for plans for early canoe chairs, which were actually used in the 18th/19th centuries. - The last time that I looked at that index, the plans were "downloadable" and free.

I plead "guilty as charged" to having a "decidedly negative opinion" of persons who, in the name of HC/PC, make nasty, belittling, mean-spirited, hateful, arrogant and abusive comments to "newcomers" to this subculture, which seem ONLY designed to make "new folks" feel stupid, "small", foolish and "insignificant".
(Personally, I go out of my way to "keep my own counsel", when I see new recruits "less than perfect" gear/outfits, as I too am FAR from perfect.= I think that there's something in The Bible about removing the log from one's own eye prior to complaining about splinters in the eyes of other people.)

yours, satx

 

[Black Hand]

I plead "guilty as charged" to having a "decidedly negative opinion" of persons who, in the name of HC/PC, make nasty, belittling, mean-spirited, hateful, arrogant and abusive comments to "newcomers" to this subculture, which seem ONLY designed to make "new folks" feel stupid, "small", foolish and "insignificant".

Having gone back and re-read every post made in this thread, you are obviously projecting your poor attitude, preconceptions and personal bias into it. Most of the posts (mine included) are none of the the above, though on the other hand, your comments were insulting, belittling, patronizing and condescending.

Please do us both a great favor, quit trying to start a fight. I'm not interested in further debating your personal issues...

 

[satx78247]

Frankly, I believe that you understand that I'm talking about hatefulness, nastiness and other similar behavior AT reenactments and other "living history events", rather than anything said by anybody on this thread. - Further, I'm not trying to "start a fight" but rather am pointing out "unfortunate behaviors" that I have personally/frequently witnessed and that every decent person should not engage in and should actively discourage in this hobby.

just my opinions, satx

 

[coloradoclyde]

All this talk of pc/hc gets me to thinking about the us patent office records and the miriad of failed inventions. while something may not be considered pc/hc, the question I have is could it be historicaly possible.

My favorite story is that it took someone 50 years to invent a can opener after the tin can was patented.

 

[Pigman]

IF you go back and read the early part of this thread, you will see that I suggested to the OP that he consult the index of WOODEN BOAT magazine (which are available "on line") for plans for early canoe chairs, which were actually used in the 18th/19th centuries. - The last time that I looked at that index, the plans were "downloadable" and free.

Could you post a link to the plans?

I went to Wooden Boat Mag and could not find them.

Thanks,
Foster From Flint

 

[Coot]

while something may not be considered pc/hc, the question I have is could it be historicaly possible.

My favorite story is that it took someone 50 years to invent a can opener after the tin can was patented.

I will try to give an answer to your question about something being "historically possible". As I see it, for something to be a historical possibility, three things are needed:

1) The materials used must have been available in the time where the object is to be considered as a possibility - for example no nylon or aluminum could be used in making something in the 18th century because they did not yet exist.

2) The tools/technology needed to produce the item must have existed in period. The object could not have been arc welded in the 19th century because the technology did not yet exist.

3) The knowledge required to produce the object must have existed. This is trickier - a 19th century "Arts & Crafts" style chair could have been made in the 18th century as all of the materials (wood, glue, fabric) existed as did the tools (saws, planes, drills, hammers) needed to make it. It differs from PC/HC chairs of the earlier period only in a matter of style or form and in theory, could have been made IF anyone had thought of making it in that form. On the other hand, percussion caps could not have been made in the 18th century because fulminate of mercury was not isolated until 1800. Without the knowledge of how to produce an impact ignited explosive, the technology to produce threaded nipples and thin sheet copper and refine chemicals was not enough. The technology was there before 1800 but the knowledge was not.
Sort of like surgery in the early 1800s - the technology to sterilize instruments was there but the knowledge of the benefits of so doing was not.