Breech with chamber

[ETipp]

I have several rifles that have Patient breech, yours would be one as its a Traditions. Generally the hooked breech models you can drop into a bucket of soapy water are much easier to clean. Flintlocks no so easy more of a pia, n that is the main reason i will not buy another Factory Flintlock.

Thanks, Mike. So far I have had zero issues with any of my ML's. Don't even know what differences there may be between the CVA Hawken, Traditions Crockett, Lyman GPR, and TC New Englander. I simply make sure they are good and clean and follow the same cleaning routine every time. Perhaps I'm just lucky but so far no hang fires nor misfires. I did have a hang fire one time with my New Englander while testing some T7, but I was using the standard nipple.

I've never used a scraper nor do I use a wire brush.

 

[Grenadier1758]

It is worthwhile to take a look at this cutaway of a T/C breech plug with snail for the nipple seat.

We can see the bell shaped chamber and the flash channel that leads to the nipple seat. There is no breech scraper that can clean the flash channel. Fouling can be pushed into the flash channel to impede the ignition path from the nipple seat to the powder chamber. This fouled flash channel may explain @ETipp's one incidence of a hangfire with his T/C New Englander. Because these are hooked breech firearms, the barrel can be removed from the stock and while the breech is immersed in a bucket of water with some soap the barrel can be forcefully flushed to clean the powder chamber and the flash channel. Note that the so called "clean out" screw is pictured too. The factory screw was made of soft steel and unless the utmost of care is taken, that screw slot can be ruined, and the screw can no longer be removed. Eventually T/C changed the manufacturing process to eliminate that plug and that stopped a lot of warranty replacements.

A pipe cleaner can be run from the nipple seat to the powder chamber, but flushing of the barrel is generally sufficient.

 

[Okie Hog]

I've never used a scraper nor do I use a wire brush.

Neither have i.

 

[ETipp]

It is worthwhile to take a look at this cutaway of a T/C breech plug with snail for the nipple seat.

View attachment 243863

We can see the bell shaped chamber and the flash channel that leads to the nipple seat. There is no breech scraper that can clean the flash channel. Fouling can be pushed into the flash channel to impede the ignition path from the nipple seat to the powder chamber. This fouled flash channel may explain @ETipp's one incidence of a hangfire with his T/C New Englander. Because these are hooked breech firearms, the barrel can be removed from the stock and while the breech is immersed in a bucket of water with some soap the barrel can be forcefully flushed to clean the powder chamber and the flash channel. Note that the so called "clean out" screw is pictured too. The factory screw was made of soft steel and unless the utmost of care is taken, that screw slot can be ruined, and the screw can no longer be removed. Eventually T/C changed the manufacturing process to eliminate that plug and that stopped a lot of warranty replacements.

A pipe cleaner can be run from the nipple seat to the powder chamber, but flushing of the barrel is generally sufficient.

Some very good information, sir. I do appreciate it.

 

[ETipp]

Neither have i.

I know, right? People recommend them but I've never had an issue by not using a scraper.

 

[Rebel bull]

The primary advantage is in the manufacturing process. You can have one inventory of rifle barrel and have an assortment of breeches, right and left, percussion and flintlock. For the shooter, the ball will be stopped above the flash channel so powder can be added to remove a ball loaded without the benefit of a powder charge.

Let's look at several styles of breech configurations.

View attachment 215048

The chambered breech has a smaller than bore diameter chamber that is threaded to the rifled barrel. Care must be taken while shooting to prevent fouling residue from entering the chamber and blocking the flash channel. This can be done with a jag custom fit to the chamber or a brush that is the size of the chamber to pull out the fouling.

Below the chambered breech is the Modified Nock's Patent Breech. It was designed to allow a small amount of powder to enter the smaller chamber by the flash channel. On ignition, the smaller chamber ignited sending a forceful jet of hot gas into the powder charge for faster ignition of the powder charge and that pressure kept the breech fouling to a minimum. This meant less wiping of the bore to remove fouling and also reduced the need to wipe the bore. Very important to shooters of fowling guns as they were reloaded often during a hunt and needed reliable ignition.

The CVA/Traditions style breech is designed to have extended threads of the touch hole with liner extend through the breech plug and lock the breech plug in place. The breech plug is drilled to form the powder chamber in the breech plug and connect to the flash channel.

There is no chamber in the traditional breech. The flash channel/touch hole connects directly into the barrel and the powder charge. In this case, we can use a vent pick to keep the touch hole clear of fouling and we can wipe the bore between shots to keep the condition of the barrel consistent from shot to shot.

IMHO there is no benefit for the shooter using a "patent" breech. I don't like them and prefer the standard traditional breech. I have one (1) rifle with a patent breech I've owned for many years and it has been problem free. In fact I've never had any of the patent breech rifles I owned in the past to have a misfire or clog traced to the maize of twists & turns. But I don't like them at all.

hanshi so in essence youve never had a problem with one, only own one but you just don't like them hmmmmm?

 

[dave951]

hanshi so in essence youve never had a problem with one, only own one but you just don't like them hmmmmm?

I have more than one with a patent breech and more than one with a flat breech and hands down, I prefer a flat breech.

 

[smokepolehall]

I am happy that my Under-Hammer has a traditional breech that is easy to clean.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

In my experience a patent breech and a flintlock just create a whole lot of problems. As others have said all the twist and turns just combine to create problems. It works somewhat better on a percussion but again as others have said there is a lot more to keep it clean.

 

[billraby]

The idea of a patent breech is that it can ignite the entire main charge all at once instead of starting at the back and burning forwards. Allows you to use larger powder charges. A lot of tests were done to show that it actually works. I am using them on 4 bore rifles because the whole idea for that sort of gun is to get the maximum amount of power possible from them and accuracy is not an issue. It's a great idea for an African big game gun, but not really needed for anything else.

 

[smokepolehall]

Lets look at these cheesy Patient breech. All of my ML's start their ignition at the bottom of barrel just where the BP is screwed in. The Patient breech in a Flintlock is not fun to clean at any time.