Absolute newbie, wondering which rifle to start out with?

[Johnny Tremain]

For that much money you can get a kit from Chambers or another company and make a far better one than you can buy.

With a pre-carved inlet stock, and MR Dixons book. You are on your way. Just finshed mine.

Heck some shops will set you dovetails and do 80% of the work.

One good reason is when yer tired of the cap lock, you can switch over to a flinter, fairly easy.

Link

If I can do it, any one can. Heck you have a few months till hunting season

 

[oscarb]

Why do most of you guys recommend .54?

 

[Rocky Johnson]

Bobznew
Don't know where you live but here in lower Michigan we can't use centerfire rifles for deer and a muzzleloader beats a shotgun hands down for accuracy so I think you will like a muzzleloader to hunt deer with. If you can't get real blackpower pyrodex works just fine in percusion guns.Happy hunting
:winking: Rocky

 

[d.thomson]

I have both a .50 and a .54 and I have found that a .54 dosn't fowel as bad as the .50. Just what I have obseved. Every gun is difrent. If you are going for bigger game than deer, like moose or elk , it's nice to have a little more umph for take down,but nothing replaces shot placement.My 2 cent F.K.

 

[bwhoffman]

Why do most of you guys recommend .54?

Excellent question with a slew of answers...
in my opinion, If I were to walk into any of the commercial stores in my area to buy some black powder supplies, 9 out of 10 stores will have only .54 stuff on the shelf. Its a mindset of retailers I think. oh, and .44 balls also, all bp handguns take .44's :hmm:

 

[AeroncaTAL]

I went with the GPR in .54 to give me the option of using it on pretty much all the game animals here in Oregon. Our game regulations allow .40 and larger for deer and .50 and larger for elk.
Scott

 

[Pork Chop]

Why do most of you guys recommend .54?

Excellent question with a slew of answers...
in my opinion, If I were to walk into any of the commercial stores in my area to buy some black powder supplies, 9 out of 10 stores will have only .54 stuff on the shelf. Its a mindset of retailers I think. oh, and .44 balls also, all bp handguns take .44's :hmm:

Down here, .50 is the common caliber. I know of a gun store going out of business that has some .54, but they are an exception.

 

[J.D.]

There have been quite a few suggestions to get a TC or a Lyman Great Plains Rifle in 54 caliber.

I have to agree that these two rifles are high quality, and the Lyman is almost, kinda, sorta close to being a copy of a plains style rifle.

The GPR is closer in appearance to original guns than the TC, however both guns are a good value.

The 54 cal is very versitile. A well placed shot from a 54 cal rifle will take down nearly any North American game animal. In addition, the 54 cal is a very accurate plinking or target caliber.

The 54 seems to retain velocity and energy better at longer ranges than most other calibers, and it does it with relatively lighter powder charges.

I often shoot a charge as light as 50 gr FFG powder, and have used as much as 100 gr for long range shooting, so you can taylor your loads to for each days shooting.

IF you have a budget of $800, I would suggest something from TVA, TVM, Tip Curtis, or Early Rustic, not necessarily in that orderd. IMHO, those sources offer a variety of features, locks calibers, and styles, as opposed to accepting whatever comes off the assembly line.
J.D.

 

[tg]

" I am definitely desiring an old-fashioned, "traditional" M/L"

Given the above statement abd your budget I would go with the LGP in a production gun it is about the only mass produced gun that fits the description or go with one of the makers mentioned in JD's post, if traditional apperance is a concern now it may only grow and one of the blends of the old and new such as TC may not be what you want down the line.

 

[cowpoke1955]

I have two .54 GPRs. One percussion and one flint. Both are great shooters. For me, there is just something special about a .54 cal. It's big enough for any game in this country, including Big Foot and flying saucers :rotf: .

 

[cptleo1]

I also have a .54 Lyman GPR flinter and firmly believe it to be the best bang for the buck out there. Followed closely by the TC.

You said:
"My question is: I'm looking around for good quality manufacturers of M/L's. I would like a nice gun for whitetail deer hunting exclusively, and I would be willing to pay up to $600-$700 for one, if needs be."

What kind of deer hunting do you do?

Different guns are better for different styles of hunting.

Think about long barrel, short barrel, average shot distance, weight, distance walked, all this stuff makes a difference.

Beg, borrow, hold and shoot as many different ML's as you can. See which fits you and your style of hunting the best.

Save up another hundred or two and call Tip Curtis in Tenn. and get one of his guns in the white. A little sand paper, some stain and a bottle of true oil and you are good to go. You will have about $900 or a little more in a quality fire arm that will last a life time.

As much as I love my GPR, I consider an Isaac Haines, an English sporting rifle, a Cristian Springs or a Jaeger to be a much better handling deer rifle.

Then you can start saving for your next ML.
and then you can start saving for your next one and then.......


P.S.

I also recommend the .54 cal.- no matter which rifle you end up with -

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Id say 50 cal, unless your going for elk size critters.

The 50 still retains some or the small ball flight trajectory, while giving a better knockdown.

The 54, tho a better kinetic wallup, your going to have ball fall off sooner.

 

[shmrck1]

Bob,
You don't say what type areas you will be hunting,
which in my opinion should be a consideration in your cal. choice. Also is deer the only game you will be hunting? Another consideration. Maybe some
hogs somewhere down the line.Although it has not been mentioned, don't sell the unmentioned .45cal. PRB short in harvesting deer.
I would not recommend it on hogs but on deer and smaller game it is deadly,if you do your part.IMO
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[bobznew]

Snake-Eyes,

Yeah, that probably would be helpful for me to tell that. I'm going to be hunting whitetail deer exclusively in south Mississippi, where a big, mature buck is rarely much over 200 Lbs. We DO have hogs there though, and I ALWAYS shoot a hog when I see one (or two, or ten, LOL). They're a complete nuisence on our land - they've rooted up so many young sapling pines that we just planted after Katrina took down nearly 50% of our timber. I shoot every blaming hog that I can put sights (or crosshairs) on. But mostly, I will be just hunting for deer. I doubt that I'll use the gun for any larger game, or dangerous game.

Also, like I mentioned earlier, the terrain down in south MS is usually thick timber forests, where a shot over 100 yards is quite rare indeed. Ditto for our food plots -- most plots we plant are less than 1 total acre. Bottom line, 95% of shots at deer are within 75-80 yards, maximum.

I'm not as concerned about downrange accuracy and knockdown power as some are. My main objective is to get a good that will be more than "sufficient" to kill a big deer. And who knows, I MAY want to take an elk one day with a M/L, but that'll be a long time down the road at least. So, I'm kinda leaning toward a .50 or .54 caliber. The only other consideration I have is recoil. It's true, I am used to fairly stout recoil, since I've shot a 7mm Mag for so long. But I would prefer something that's also FUN to shoot. The 7 Mag is great for deer hunting, especially at long range. But it's no fun to shoot, b/c of the kick. The only time I ever shoot it is to sight it in at the beginning of fall, and if I'm shooting a deer. That's it. With my M/L, I would really, really love something that was a little easier on the ol' shoulder and upper arm, if that's possible in .50 or .54 caliber. I would love to be able to just take the M/L out in the woods, and if I feel like shooting (or target practicing on a limb in the water, just shoot away, several times, without worrying about having a blue shoulder the next day, LOL! Not so easy to do that with the 7 Mag!

Thanks again for all the help. - Bob

 

[Rebel]

Recoil with a muzzleloader has never been an issue with me. They don't have the same KICK type recoil of a centerfire. More of a hard shove. I shoot my .62 cal smoothbore with rd balls a lot and never notice the rcoil. You don't need heavy powder charges with a large ball to take game cleanly, just good shot placement. If all of your shots are likely to be under 75 yds i would consider a flintlock smoothbore in .62 cal./.20 ga. With it you can shoot shot for birds and small game and rd balls for deer, elk and hogs. Get one with a good Siler lock and ignition time will be nearly as fast as a caplock, and they are a lot of fun to shoot. :thumbsup:

 

[jolo]

Just to add to the crowd. I'm a recent owner of the Lyman GPR in .54 cal. One nice feature of it, and other long heavy barrel smokepoles, is the way it settles right down when you're shootin' offhand. I was amazed the first time I hoisted it how rock steady it becomes. Recoil, at least with 70gr of FFF, is not even noticed by me. I used to have a TC Hawken in .50 and it was a fine rifle also. Always thought it a bit gaudy tho' so opted for the GPR when getting back into the game. Good luck with whatever you choose and keep poppin' them hogs. John

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Yes, I would recommend a percussion rifle first (I still shoot mine, haven't got a flinter yet) and .45 caliber on up. With the .45 and 1-48 or faster twist conicals will do well, pleny enough for whitetail.Actually at range 50 yds and under the PRB would do in .45 with good shot placement. Just my .02.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Hey Newbie!

Just like I said on the other thread, make sure that the gun fits YOU...and an expensive gun that doesn't fit or shoot well for you isn't as good as a cheap gun that's not the pretiest, but fits & hits well. See what fits, especially with those curved buttplates!

Nothing in North America needs more killing than a .50 cal Maxi traveling at almost 1400 FPS.

Same gun can shoot a seedless grape at 25 yds. with a PRB!

It's a $295.00 Lyman trade rifle, with the primitive sights adjusted with a hammer and a block of wood! .50 cal, 1 in 48 twist...not perfect for either, but a great compromise and quite acceptable.

And that leaves quite a nice pile of dough to buy all of the other great stuff that makes this hobby so nice to be involved in: possibles bag, tubes, range rod, fancy gun case, ball starter, patch knife, powder, more powder, balls, conicals, patches, cleaning acc's,maybe even a single shot pistol or a revolver!

The list goes on and on...just give your paycheck to the ML storeowner and he'll tell you when to stop taking stuff out of his store!

Go to a Range where BP is in vogue, and ask to see anything that even remotely appeals to you. I'm sure that almost everyone will want you to give their gun a go. Do this a couple of times, take notes, make new friends, exchange e-mail info and most of all, HAVE FUN MAKING SMOKE!!!

All the best,

Dave

 

[J.D.]

Since you are new to muzzleloading, I also recommend a percussion rifle. Flint guns are a LOT of fun, but they can also be a royal PITA if you don't have a mentor you as you learn quirks of your gun.

I am a believer in bigger is better when it comes to ML hunting. Since more powder doesn't always equate to more terminal energy, and round balls don't always expand very much, bigger is always better.

Since you will be hunting and shooting to a maximum of about 100 yards, I suggest the 54 cal. Recoil is almost non-existant with lighter loads, and no worse than a 20 ga shotgun with the heaviest effective load you should need behind a round ball. Recoil with heavy conicals can be a different story.

Good terminal ballistics, easy on the shoulder, excellent accuracy, and plenty of penetration on those hogs equals 54 cal. :grin:


I also suggest that you handle every rifle you can get your hands on and record length of pull, drop, cast off, and whatever measurements you can think of from any rifle that feels really good, before ordering your rifle.

If you order from a semicustom maker, they should ask for those dimensions so the stock can be taylored to fit you properly. IF they don't ask, tell 'em what those dimensions are.
J.D.

 

[bobznew]

You all have been incredibly helpful. I feel like I know more now about M/L's than many of my friends do who have hunted blackpowder for years. Thanks for all the advice!

I've looked around online at some of the guns that have been mentioned on this forum. That brings me to a point that I probably should make about my personal style regarding my taste in firearms. The aesthetics of a gun are fairly important to me. Regardless of how well a gun shoots, how well it fits ME, how reliable it is, how much intricate hand-craftmanship has been put into it, etc., if the gun doesn't "catch my eye" to a certain degree, it's unlikely that I'll take the plunge. I'd rather wait and see if I can find something the likes of which, when I see it for the first time, I say "Now that is EXACTLY what I'm looking for in a firearm."

So far, the Lyman GPR really does fit the bill for me. According to the info you all have given, it apparently is a pretty darn good gun, for the price. And, to me, it's a good looking firearm. I found one other model that is equally appealing to my eye, though not as appealing to the pocketbook. That is the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken. To me, it's a fantastic looking gun, in both maple and walnut stock. That begs the question though: Is it worth the extra $200-$300, just to get something that's a little bit more appealing to the eye? If I knew that Pedersoli made a good quality firearm, then I could probably justify the extra $$$ that it would cost. I certainly don't mind spending a little extra, if I'm getting something that's worth it. I know there are probably many, many models and brands of guns out there that are no more expensive than the Pedersoli, that many shooters would prefer over the Pedersoli. But to date, that's the gun that captures my attention, along with the GPR. So, I guess, I'm wondering what kind of gun does Pedersoli make? Anyone have one of their firearms and wouldn't mind giving a little 411? If someone would, that would be most appreciated.

Sorry for being so long-winded. To quote Stephen King, "I've often been diagnosed with diarrhea of the word processor." :grin: