Was wondering what would be Easyer

[Rabbit man]

I am wanting to put togather a muzzle loader and was wondering if it would be Easyer to get a kit or get a stock and then all the other parts sepraetly was wanting to put a kentucky long rifle or a smoothbore togather any help will help thanks

 

[Zonie]

It is easiest to buy one of the kits from companies like Traditions, Lyman, Pedersoli and a few other of the major gun makers.

Their kits are their production guns left in a semi finished condition. The wood will require a little shaping and sanding and applying a suitable finish, bluing or browning the barrel and basically screwing them together.
With limited skills a good representation of the guns they offer in a finished condition can be made. These kits will take the average person between 15 and 30 hours to complete.

The "kits" offered by Pecatonica River, Track of the Wolf, and others is not really a kit like most people think of the word.
They are a box of semi finished parts, raw castings and a partially formed stock with the barrel channel roughed in.

None of the screw holes are even located let alone drilled and threaded.

Nothing initially "fits". All parts will need to be inletted into the stock, even the lock and trigger on the stocks that are "semi-inletted" for their lock and trigger.

Skills in doing accurate layout, filing, drilling and tapping, shaping wood, drilling deep holes accurately for the barrel pins and many other things are needed.

A person who is familiar with doing this stuff will still need from 120 to 180 hours of his/her time to do a good job of ending up with a really nice gun.

Buying one of the box of parts "kits" from one of the places like Pecatonica River, TOTW etc assures the parts will build the gun.
Starting with just a roughed out stock and then buying pieces later can lead to parts that will never fit into the existing wood. I don't recommend doing this.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Along Zonie's post... you could also ask one of the semi-custom builders what they would charge you for putting together something in-the-white... fully assembled and functional...but any brass bits needing some emory cloth and polishing, and the stock needing some sanding and staining and a finish coat.

That way you'd have a better firearm than a full factory "kit" (imho-depending on who put it together for you), and the finishing of the firearm for you would be similar to finishing one of the out-of-the-box, mass produced kits.

LD

 

[crockett]

Another idea is to get a Track of the Wolf catalog, I think it is around $10 but worth the price. Some of their kits are more "finished" than others and the Track of the Wolf (TOW) can also do a few things for you- like properly fitting a breech plug. They charge nominal fees for extra work but if certain jobs seem to complicated then you might work out a solution.

 

[frogwalking]

I have done both, and these days I mostly build what pleases me, which I cannot get in a kit. However, I vote for a kit as a first effort, Lots of details are taken care of, such as screw size, lock placement and buttplate being the right size and shape for the stock. I would caution against the CVA kits, as they are a lower quality than others mentioned. Of those discussed, Chambers is better. As Zonie says, you will have to drill and tap lock and tang bolts, drill and countersink buttplate screws and such. I must caution that buying a kit where these holes are drilled and tapped, the parts must be in exactly the right place for these to fit. The two kit makers listed above provide US made parts, which are better quality than the imports, imho.

 

[frogwalking]

These kits can all be built without a drill press. I have built 15 or so without one. However, I would be hard pressed to make another without this tool. You can get a Chinese table model drill press for a very reasonable price, and they are good enough for hobby work. Buy the correct drill size and taps for 6-32 and 8-32 screws, and a countersink, a set of carving gouges and you are good to go. Oh yes, an assortment of files will be needed, and a grindstone would be nice. As you build your first one, additional tools that you can use will become apparent.

 

[galamb]

All great advice, but I think the first thing you need to do is back up a step and decide, first off, what exactly the style of rifle/gun you want.

Then you can decide how much of it you actually want to build yourself.

If you want a "put part A into cut-out B", then as Zonie suggests, one of the kits from the "off the shelf" MFG's is in order.

If you want to craft it yourself, then depending on what it is that you want, some of the vendors are better suited to supplying certain styles than others.

 

[kaintuck]

Go buy one from tip Curtis ......

Then rifle #2 can be a kit.... :surrender:

Marc n tomtom

 

[Rabbit man]

I think I would like a true kentucky rifle I would like to craft it with some carvings or just a disgn on the but of it near half way back from the lock and some on the forearm of it well I also like a project that would make me work a bit on it to figure it out what I want that's why I keep asking this qesution

 

[Birddog6]

What would be Easier........ is to Read this forum. :hmm: This question is asked about every couple months on here, in one way or another.
Going back thru past posts on here will enlighten you on many of the tribulations of assembling (and assembling is what it is) a premade rifle kit (Lyman, CVA, Traditions, InvestArms, etc.) vs. actually building a rifle from a box of parts & castings (Track of the Wolf, Pecatonica, Tip Curtis Frontier Shop, etc)
Reading these posts will cost you nothing in $ and there is a world of info on here for just a little time it takes.

You can then easily decide if you are a real Hands On type of guy that can actually build a rifle.

But basically if you are good with tools & can repair & make things correctly, you can most likely build from a Tracks box of parts. But if you are a guy who has issues with assembling the kids tricycle & you might want to stick with the Lyman or Traditions assembly kit. I am not cutting the guy or the kit, :shake: it is just basic
fact that some people are better at other things, and the actual building of a rifle may not be one of them. Then again it may be just your cut pf tea. :idunno:

But a few evenings on here of reading back post may help you decide without spending any money.

Good Luck

Keith Lisle

 

[Rabbit man]

Thanks I mean I can make duct work and assemble and take apart a furnace I am good with my hands but ant done much wood working so don't know how that will be but if any thing any kit I put together will be fine with me cause I worked on it myself

 

[Hawgeye]

The first attempt at a kit build is a little scary. I bought two publications before attempting my first. "The gunsmith of grenville county" and "recreating the american long rifle" are a worthwhile investment. Very good how to books and they give you a step by step order of how things should be done, the tools needed and drawings to help you with design and architecture. They won't eliminate all of your mistakes, but they do improve your chances. If you decide to build rather than assemble, take time, exercise patience and ask questions here if you are unsure about how to proceed with something.

 

[MSW]

The first attempt at a kit build is a little scary. I bought two publications before attempting my first. "The gunsmith of grenville county" and "recreating the american long rifle" are a worthwhile investment. Very good how to books and they give you a step by step order of how things should be done, the tools needed and drawings to help you with design and architecture. They won't eliminate all of your mistakes, but they do improve your chances. If you decide to build rather than assemble, take time, exercise patience and ask questions here if you are unsure about how to proceed with something.

+1 BIGTIME!!

Alexander's book (The Gunsmith of Grenville County) was especially instructive to me because it explains why you should do steps in a certain order ... once you see this, the "ah ha" moment moves closer. Also, this book will more than save you its cost if you count parts you don't ruin because you didn't get into a "do this and this, BUT FIRST, do the other thing" situation.

another plug for the book- it has some nice illustrations, and you can get a good feel for where you want to go.

one more thing: avoid the siren song of a "Hawken" style rifle - these are much more difficult to get right than they appear: if this is your first build, an attempt to make a Hawken style rifle will inevitably turn $850 worth of parts into a two hundred dollar gun.

OK - that's the rant ... it's safe to come out now.

 

[ZUG]

Birddog6 is on the right track. Do the reading first then get a blue print of a ML rifle style you like & take a 2X8 and try to shape it into rifle shape, pay particular attention to the lock & wrist area. If it comes out good then go for the real thing. Not a good idea buying $600+ in parts to end up with a $100 rifle unless that is what you are after. Practice first :v .

 

[Rabbit man]

I mean I was wanting to get a kit but don't know which one would be worth my money

 

[JohnN]

Jim Chambers kits are a little more expensive but more things are inlet. On the one I bought the ramrod ferules, lock bolt plate,and trigger guard are partially inlet.

 

[Billnpatti]

I would recommend both of the books that Hawgeye suggested. Reading them before picking up a tool to start on your kit will really help you avoid costly mistakes. I like Jim Chambers' kits because they consist of good parts and nice 90% inlet stocks. If you are patient person who goes slowly and thinks his way through a project and carefully follows directions, you will end up with a gun that you will be proud of. But, if you are the kind of guy who has little patience and gets in a rush, you are going to turn several hundred dollars worth of good parts into a piece of junk. Building a beautiful rifle takes time, patience and the willingness to stop and ask questions of folks who have experience building beautiful rifles. This forum is a good place to get answers to questions that are bound to come up while you are building your rifle. Like Davy Crocket said "Be sure you're right and then go ahead."

if you would liker to risk a bit less money on your first try, you might consider a kit from Sitting Fox. http://sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/ They are a bit less expensive than Jim Chambers kits. But, I don't think they are quite the same quality as Jim Chambers kits. You will end up with a quite serviceable gun, though.

 

[kaintuck]

Dave Keck at knobmountain muzzleloading sometimes has 3/4 finished guns....at great prices.....

Another part to this is: tools.....good tools cost, and Leevalley tools is some of guys addiction!!!

Hope they never put a centerfold in the Leevalley catalog.... :slap: :rotf: it would be a custom spokeshave if they did!!!!

" I have tools, therefore I must build"

Marc n tomtom

 

[Rabbit man]

Thanks guy I was wondering how long it takes to get a good looking rifle I have little time but every min I have free I want to work on it I have time off work but have school still well I jw how long it took you all on your frist gun

 

[Zonie]

Typically, a box of rough parts "kit" will take between 120 and 180 hours of your time to finish.