Discussion in 'Flintlock Rifles' started by Smokey Plainsman, Jun 20, 2019.
The discussion then would be about you got what you paid for.....
I guarantee most or all of these vendors are "lurkers" on this forum.
I'd get a refund and I mean, the seller wasn't ashamed to take the OP's money and box that rifle up, so the OP shouldn't be ashamed to vent about it.
I can see if he was nit picking but that rifle is not what he paid for and it looks slapped together.
Honestly if someone showed me those pics and said they built it from a kit I'd be thinking , that is kinda shoddy work......let alone by a "custom" professional??
One fear is the issue will not be publicly resolved. We have a vendor 80-90% or more very positive rating. So they make it right somehow and kinda like when you don't get a thank you or still having trouble, it lingers. There is a point where most of us would say resolved more than fair or forget it, don't do business. However if we never hear what the solution is we don't have closure to make future decisions.
It was brought up on a public forum, should be closed there when complete. I would bet there have been attempts to communicate today but the forum has heard nothing that i can tell. I dont think i have communicated my thoughts clearly here but i hope some of you can understand it.
Here's a poor photo of the front end of one of my TVMs. It looks good to me. It's not as red as it looks: I had to enhance the light so you could see it.
The fact that the sides of the muzzle cap are higher than the barrel channel is awful and I cannot imagine letting anything like that out of my shop. It is so easy to resolve, that it suggests to me a dodgy commitment to quality.
Yes, and how much do you charge for one of your beautiful rifles? Perfection costs, and I'm willing to put up with a certain amount of imperfection because I can't afford better. I'm not a collector, I'm a shooter (occasionally) and while I appreciate beauty, I'm not willing to pay for it.
I understand but that fault has nothing to do with extra time or greater cost because the solution is trivial. It is because the shop is not inspecting their work going out the door or don't care.
I don't like getting into these discussions but this one got under my skin. We are talking $1800 hard earned dollars. We are talking US made that we harp about as better than other countries quality. I personally would have had that gun back in the box on its way to TVM for a refund the day I got it. Wrong barrel and generally sloppy workmanship. You can spend the same amount with a real builder and do much better. I have two that I paid that price for and they are light years ahead in fit and quality. Pride in workmanship -- some have it and some don't.
If that gun was put together by the purchaser from a kit, then I could understand the logic. In fact the rifle I put together from one of their kits looks about the same as that. But, I built the gun, and I'm no craftsman. Just a guy like many who are skilled enough to be able to assemble a kit of parts into a functional firearm. One that maybe passes the ten foot, most people won't know the difference test. Now, if I paid a few grand for a fully assembled rifle then she had better arrive at my door looking like she just stepped out of a beauty salon, not come to me looking like some wrung out dish rag that some Navy sailors wiped their arses with.
And this is why I will likely never own a custom. Anything under $2k is a gamble at best. A gamble I won't take. I can't justify spending the amount of money needed to be assured of a quality rifle. So I will stick to factory muzzleloaders. Paying $1800 for a rifle and discovering a disaster in a packing box/crate like that would quite frankly enrage me. I've lurked and been a member of various muzzleloader forums for a number of years. I've been to Friendship more times then I care to think about. I've seen situations like this unfold countless times. There are a great number of charlatans (not saying TVM is in particular) who have no business "building" and selling MLs, yet they do and upset a great number of naive folks all the time. The folks are naive because if you add up the cost of the parts from LCS, TOW, MBS, Chambers, etc then maybe they would see the problem. Can't expect a quality build for a measly $200-400 gross profit.
Edit- I should add that this is NOT a condemnation of ALL builders. There are true craftsman who can deliver a rifle that is worth far far more than the sum of it's parts and is a joy to own and shoot. Those builders are far and few between though. And you better own your billfold wide. Most people want cheap. This is what cheap gets you.
"Disaster?" Isn't that a bit judgmental of an entire rifle and maker based on the photo of a fraction of an inch of steel?
Agree with Gene L, not a disaster, but rather a potential disappointment. Depends on TVM. Expect them to step up to the plate and resolve all concerns. TVM has somehow become a rather controversial builder. Many buyers love them, a few hate them. Quessing when this is over and the initial disappointment is a distant memory, Smokey will go to the mat for TVM. In spite of any of the cosmetic issues, seems TVMs are reliable and accurate (personally have handled and shot a few, but never owned one), and Smokey, love him or hate him, told us what he was doing before placing his order. No surprises here. Get your big boy or girl bowl of popcorn out and enjoy the show.
Yeah because foreign manufactures are still in the dark ages.....
What makes me chuckle here is how most folk really believe that their semi custom or full on custom gun is hand built!
It don't happen today, most of it is CNC and not on an individual basis!
It cracks me up how much some pay for firearms. The glossy catalogue with a craftsman at his bench with a row of files. Lol. A row of CNC mills and glum faced operatives would be a closer a truer image!
Friends, comrades, flinstman, and readers:
I spoke with TVM to-day, and they’ve sent a pre-paid shipper’s label for the return. Not to mention the discrepancy in barrels, I also mentioned the poor inletting of the lock and sideplate. The lady on the phone, I won’t mention her name for privacy, seemed reluctant to speak of it, and said “all of our inletting is done by hand”. This may be so, but regardless whether it was done by hand or not, it is not good inletting. She said they would look it over once it arrived back to them. The marred nosecap will also be repaired.
At present, TVM has admitted to their errors in this rifle and appear to want to correct them. Friends, I will keep you all updated as to what happens. I’m hoping this ugly duck can turn into a decent enough swan. I am a blue-collar man, who saved up long and worked very hard to pay for this rifle. I am simply reporting on the product that was delivered, and will report on the product once it is again delivered, and, god willing, fixed. Thanks,
I think there's a danger of being too hoity-toity here. Not to mention a bias that allowed one poster to evaluate a builder based on a half-inch photograph. Not all of us can afford to drop $5K into a rifle, and that's OK. If I could afford it, I wouldn't, because that's not why I like shooting MLs. Historically, we see all the silver-chased and carved stocks because they were used the least. Let us not get too exclusive on this board to where anyone feels superior to another because of the "quality" of his rifle.
I've got two, and they're great. Not "fine" rifles, but I didn't pay for a fine rifle. I don't know what Dave charges for his rifles, but I could probably buy three (or more) TVMs, and I'll wager these plain rifles, like most of the workaday rifles of the average American rifleman, will shoot just as fine.
Ok, who cares about the cosmetic screwups. The OP didn't pay top shelf prices so he gets what he gets cosmetically. I think some of you are missing the point. The OP payed for a specific high end barrel and the builder used a generic barrel instead, that IS a disaster. It's not like the builder can say "oh sorry, I'll just swap you barrels".
I do recall a thread a while back about lyman quality going down of late. Then there is the comments about s&w taking tc quality down, even seen custom builders on this site criticize other custom builders work on here, and then there is the pc discussions where if not to the writers standard everyone is wrong. As i get older even a high end custom rilfe i might find something i dont like if i look hard enough. The way this thread is going is what i was trying to say earlier. Disappointing to say the least.
Hmmmm....inletted by hand? Perhaps this craftsman should do his inletting in the AM before the shakes begin?? LOL sorry
Still better than I could do. Cept the barrel, I could get the right barrel....even if I ordered late in the afternoon
If the OP could live with the barrel, TVM should give him one hell of a discount and make him happy with the gun as it is. Otherwise TVM should put the gun back on the for sale rack and build the OP another one with the correct barrel. BUT, the OP should have certainly given TVM that opportunity before going public on a forum viewed by potentially millions forever. Hopefully everybody will come away in a good place, and lessons learned.
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