TVM Woes! :(

[NorthFork]

I'll add one more point, as controversial as it may be.

It's unfortunate situations like this why I tell folks not to go this route when looking for a muzzleloader. As I see it a fellows options are as follows-

1. Buy a Pedersoli, Traditions, T/C, or Lyman (and in that order of preference) if you don't have at least $2500 and the patience to wait a minimum of a year. Any 'custom' that costs less than $2000 is going to be a gamble. I've seen it countless, countless times on forums and in everyday life.

2. Build your own. Will cost you about the same as a low budget 'custom' and you likely can do a better job.

3. Find a well respected, well vetted builder with YEARS of building high quality rifles under his belt. Someone who is nationally known. Inspect examples of his work thoroughly. These builders are low volume and high demand. Be prepared to wait forever and spend a small fortune.

4. Buy 'pre made' customs from shows or vendors like TOW where you can thoroughly look over the build before committing your hard earned money.

I suggest that for most people, #1 is the most logical and safe choice. #4 would be the next best possible option. Most folks don't have the talent nor the time to build their own so option #2 is out. Most folks can't spend the money required for a quality custom so for most folks #3 is out. The sad thing is that even though most folks don't have the talent to build their own, they would still turn out a better rifle than many builders.

 

[Grenadier1758]

There is probably a #5.

Buy from a respectable classified section on a muzzleloader forum. Certainly this forum which has 2 or three reasonably interesting rifles listed. You may have to wait for one that fits the specific needs that your are trying to fill.

Best is to have it in your hands to look over.

 

[DNS]

I was told by a well known gun stocker at friendship many years ago, to use a wood screw for the tang screw. His reasoning was why drill completely through the weakest part of the gun (wrist) if you don't have to. It wasn't either of the tvm boys.

 

[NorthFork]

Yes that would be an acceptable option as well if the seller and buyer can work out a fair return policy before money changes hands and gun ships from seller to buyer.

There is a difference between top shelf, workmen like quality and garbage. Nothing wrong with basic, solid workmen like quality rifles. Unfortunately too many sub $2000-2500 rifles are turned out in a garbage like state yet are advertised as workmen like quality. Obviously if you want top shelf your going to pay through the nose for it. I sympathize with the OP. I hope he can find a solution that is as painless as possible for him. Sadly he will probably have to loose some money in the process. If I built that rifle I would be greatly embarrassed. If I performed my day to day job with the same level of commitment and quality demonstrated by the pictures shown, I would be in fear for my job. I stand by my original comments. The rifle shown in the pictures is not worth $1800. It's likely worth less than the sum of it's parts. You know the old worn out saying about turning a $1000 worth of rifle parts to $500 rifle? It applies here.

 

[dave_person]

I was told by a well known gun stocker at friendship many years ago, to use a wood screw for the tang screw. His reasoning was why drill completely through the weakest part of the gun (wrist) if you don't have to. It wasn't either of the tvm boys.

Hi,
Which is of course is why the vast majority of firearms built since 1500 have tang bolts that go all the way thru the stocks as well as virtually all military muskets. All those gunmakers over the centuries just didn't get that logic.

dave

 

[SDSmlf]

I was told by a well known gun stocker at friendship many years ago, to use a wood screw for the tang screw. His reasoning was why drill completely through the weakest part of the gun (wrist) if you don't have to. It wasn't either of the tvm boys.

In my opinion, another ‘gun stocker’ to avoid. I have seen some on this forum argue drilling through the wrist removes wood and weakens it. Do not understand their logic. Personally, consider a bolt through the tang and stock threaded into the trigger plate or guard a design necessity on a new build, unless one is just building a decorative wall hanger. On existing guns where only wood screws were used (an older TC for example), and there is no place drill and tap a threaded hole, I will add metal inserts into the bottom of the stock (hidden in the trigger mortise) to thread the bolts into.

 

[rich pierce]

Getting a quality muzzleloading rifle that is more authentic than factory offerings is an expensive proposition, and hard to swallow for folks who have purchased modern guns which look good (to eyes conditioned by looking at modern factory guns) and cost under $700.

The builders can’t help that parts are expensive and that it takes a lot of time to stock a gun. As mentioned above, it’s best to know a product not by forum recommendations or website pictures but by seeing a maker’s guns in person.

The biggest quality disparity seems to occur in guns in the $1500-$2500 range.

 

[EC121]

With some shopping I bought this used rifle at the Knoxville show for $2K even. It has a few issues, but for the quality at that price and nice build plus the fit and feel of rifle to me I can overlook them. If I skin it up, so what. Unless you just have to have a particular rifle built there are nice, reasonably priced rifles out there if you look.

[/IMG]

 

[rich pierce]

Looks very nice. You make a good point.

 

[Sidney Smith]

I'll add one more point, as controversial as it may be.

It's unfortunate situations like this why I tell folks not to go this route when looking for a muzzleloader. As I see it a fellows options are as follows-

1. Buy a Pedersoli, Traditions, T/C, or Lyman (and in that order of preference) if you don't have at least $2500 and the patience to wait a minimum of a year. Any 'custom' that costs less than $2000 is going to be a gamble. I've seen it countless, countless times on forums and in everyday life.

2. Build your own. Will cost you about the same as a low budget 'custom' and you likely can do a better job.

3. Find a well respected, well vetted builder with YEARS of building high quality rifles under his belt. Someone who is nationally known. Inspect examples of his work thoroughly. These builders are low volume and high demand. Be prepared to wait forever and spend a small fortune.

4. Buy 'pre made' customs from shows or vendors like TOW where you can thoroughly look over the build before committing your hard earned money.

I suggest that for most people, #1 is the most logical and safe choice. #4 would be the next best possible option. Most folks don't have the talent nor the time to build their own so option #2 is out. Most folks can't spend the money required for a quality custom so for most folks #3 is out. The sad thing is that even though most folks don't have the talent to build their own, they would still turn out a better rifle than many builders.

No.2 is definitely not out if you're willing to try things. I had never built a muzzle loader before I put my first kit gun together. Is it a work of art, to most probably not. But, it's a lot nicer than some guns I've personally inspected. That first kit cost me $500 plus change when I bought it back in 99. All told I probably put another $ 100 into tools and finishing materials. Worth it to me to attempt a build. I'm into my current build about $900. Again by the time it's done I'll have definitely saved money versus paying someone else to build it.

 

[ScottE]

I must of missed something but I don't see where they say they make them there.

B.

TVM is located in Natchez Mississippi. I've been there several times

 

[KHickam]

I've gotten several smoothbores from Jackie Brown. All under a $1k. Work fine and kill anything I shoot at.

 

[Flintleather]

Did matt sign the top of the barrel or did you ask him not to? Heard he signs all he makes unless asked not to.

The “Matt” signature is made with a CNC engraver, all the guns no matter who makes them at the shop are marked this way.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Also even tho the whole gun is browned metal, the frizzen is totally in the white, even the back. Is that normal? It looks off.

 

[DNS]

Even if everything else was alright, using the wrong barrel is an instant send back. Also there should be no charge to you as it is clearly there fault. Any good company would certainly offer a refund or replacement.

 

[vintovka]

Just a comment. Even if totally resolved, this thread may have done irreparable damage to the TVM name. Posting on the net is similar to carving in stone except it will always be there, available to 8 billion + viewers and totally weather resistant.

 

[azmntman]

Agree....but if ya read this and other posts they seem to have about a 90% favorable rating, pretty good advertising to offset the complaints. All vendors screw up, seems we need to hear about resolution now.

 

[Sidney Smith]

Just a comment. Even if totally resolved, this thread may have done irreparable damage to the TVM name. Posting on the net is similar to carving in stone except it will always be there, available to 8 billion + viewers and totally weather resistant.

And if it does do TVM harm then IMO so be it. If the pictures are what $2k buys from them then word should get out about their sub par workmanship. If the OP had paid $500 for the gun then OK, that's the quality you're going to get for that sum. But for four times $500 the result should be a lot nicer than what he got.

I'm never for pussyfooting around when it comes to ones hard earned money. If a company puts out products that are below expectations for the cost then by all means they should be called out for it. And in this day of instant attention to the masses they should know better than to let a piece of manure leave their premises without complaints running across the net within moments.

Maybe a little bad press will cause them to tighten up their quality control. That can only be a good thing in the long run for everyone, including TVM.

 

[dave_person]

Just a comment. Even if totally resolved, this thread may have done irreparable damage to the TVM name. Posting on the net is similar to carving in stone except it will always be there, available to 8 billion + viewers and totally weather resistant.

Hi,
If the gun was made in India, would you be saying the same thing?

dave

 

[vintovka]

Hi,
If the gun was made in India, would you be saying the same thing?

dave

Actually a statement of, fact intended as neither a defense or condemnation. Many react without thinking ahead and put themselves in a less desirable position to resolve issues. Even foreign manufacturers are aware what negative feedback may cost them in future sales and smart ones will resolve issues early on. I fully agree that those who don't provide adequate and timely customer service deserve to go out of business and/or wind up in court.