Traditions Crockett Problem - On to Pedersoli?

[tnpaw]

Mac, how good do you see with the stock buckhorn sight on the Crockett! Now my eyes are a might older than yours, but I couldn't see them good enough to get a decent group and my Crockett was brand new when I started shooting it! So I ordered a Skinner Peep sight for it and it will stay an inch or under at 25-30yds all day! About as long a shot I will take! And I am using a cast .310 ball , with an old worn out denim shirt for patching, cut at the muzzle! Using Moose Milk for lube! I also swab before next loading! I am using 20g of 3fg Goex for powder!

 

[Micah Clark]

I have never liked buckhorn sights on anything I have owned. . .from my Marlin 39, to my Lyman GPR and the Crockett. I switched the sights to Lyman brand - not sure the model, I think they are called hunting sights, but I can best describe them as very similar to the sights you see on a Ruger 10/22 - fold down rear with a white triangle painted on it, and a white dot front sight, which I painted blaze orange.

I don't have the best eyes in the world. . . so that was one of my considerations too with this Crockett of mine.

 

[Micah Clark]

Hanshi,

It is an honor to hear from you. In researching the Crockett over the past few years, I have read and printed out some articles you have written on it, which I think were online in something called your notebook. You know your stuff.

Because of this, I have used Hoppes BP solvent, and it was an improvement. . . . I duplicated your 30 grains of 3 f Goex for the Crockett - but didn't get the results you did. Now, I was using .15 pillow ticking soaked in Hoppes . . . I need to look in my cabinet to see if I have .18. . . I have .10 and .12 in Ox Yokes. and a 10 dry patch all of which I have tried.

I appreciate your points on the crown and will try that.

best,
Micah

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Hey Mac, don't get discouraged. This is kind of the allure of black powder firearms. I am 62 and have been involved since early 70's. They have their own personalities and we all try to figure them out as most are fairly easy like people and then you have the problem child or gun....lol

Hang in there, and maybe you can pick up a Pedersoli for a decent price. As I always tell my wife....it is like investing in the stock market only safer!! You take care of them and they will double in price or at least appreciate and you have fun in meantime....more fun than a stock certificate unless it goes through the roof, but that is a rarity for sure. Black powder is fun and the more you do it the more you will appreciate it and cut out the mistakes along the way. I do a lot of reloading centerfire and shoot in that part of the world too, but nothing like the black powder world. You have so many variables that can be challenging but, fun too!

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Right now or last week you could buy a Frontier from Pedersoli for less than $500 new as I bought one from Cabelas for that price. What a nice piece of machinery it is. I got 54 and now wish I had got the 36 in it instead, haven't shot it yet and it is still in box. I might call them and see if they will trade as I have quite a few of 54s in the safe now.

 

[Micah Clark]

I've seen Cabela's Kentucky online for $449 in Perc . . which is an outstanding price . . but only in .50 . . . in fact, Cabela's doesn't sell a Pedersoli in .32. . .from what I can tell, though the P web site has it in several models. . not sure about the Frontier calibers for Cabelas though that gun doesn't fit me quite as well as the Penn or KY.

Thanks for the encouragement . . . I love blowing lots of smoke out the barrel . . . which is why I like real BP better than the substitutes.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Well I think you already know BP is an incurable disease but it is a fun disease to have none the less. If you get a chance to buy a nice TC Hawken, Renegade or Seneca and price is right do it as they are going up due to non-production and they are quality firearms too.

You could also buy one of those Pedersoli Tradional Hawken that looks exactly like a TC Hawken for $399 at Cabelas. I got one delivered today and it is beautiful and perfect, high quality all around. I got the 54 and it weighs less than 7 lbs. It is as nice as my Rocky Mtn. Pedersolis that I now own as well.

 

[jethro224]

Good idea on using larger patches if I can't find the .32 ones . . . for review and clues to what's going on with this Crockett. Thanks.

BTW - The fact that cleaning the Crockett and getting a patch and rod stuck near the bottom is a headache that I always have to avoid is a real pain in the rump and one thing I really hate about the gun.

A couple of things you might find helpful;

If you want to find patches to read, and you want to find 'em easy, get a large cardboard box. Set it out 5 yards or so and shoot a few rounds into the open end. The balls will go thru the box but the patches won't.

The Crockett I used to own had the breech snag too and it really aggravated me. I believe it's not really a gap, it's a bore thing. The bore in the patent breech is a fuzz larger than the bore in the barrel. If/when your jag goes past that step it gets hung up on the lip. It won't come out until it lines back up perfectly with the barrel bore.
I was able to find a long jag. The jag had like 5 or six rings to the end instead of the normal 2 or 3. That jag never dropped over the lip in the breech. A couple of the rings stayed in the barrel and kept it centered. Problem solved.
Sorry but I can't remember where I found the long jag. :idunno:

BTW, mine shot tight groups too with .018 patching, grease lube, and .310 or .311 balls. Try the thicker patch.

 

[Shifty]

I got one of those rifles sveral yrs ago ,started out with 30grns 3f no accuracy,ok drop done to 10 grns 3f ,tight patch,.310 hornady ball, mink oil lube,3 shots groups at 25 yds can be covered with a dime,power plenty good on squirrels. It will shoot almost the good at 15 grns 3f ,but starts opening up after that ,about 1 1/2" at 25yds with 30 grns 3f. I had to try different balls too ,found that the swaged Hornady where the best.I have never shot it past 40yds or so ,still good for squirrels at that range, I believe it would take a Coy at 75 yds with the 30 grn charge.

 

[Micah Clark]

I have used 310 hornady the most . .but have shot .311 and they are slightly better, (which may indicate I need more than a .15 patch) . . but they are more tricky as they have a sprue from a Lee mold . .the .310 are swagged, so the ball can sit on the patch any way.

I have shot those powder loads, but I may need to go back to them with a thicker patch . . . the traditions crockett manual suggests 10 or 15 grains . . . which seems lighter than most shoot on this forum, but I think 15 to 20 is like a 22 and above that starts to get pretty hot for squirrel.

The shooting into the box to capture patches is brilliant. Great thoughts.

One variable many of you have mentioned that is different for me is the patch lube. . .I have used spit, bore butter and Hoppes . . .I like Hoppes BP the best . . . how important is a certain kind of lube? Would it change a three inch group at 25 yards and take it down to 1 inch?

 

[mooman76]

Lube can be very important. Some guns it doesn't matter as much and some are picky. I use bore butter at time but have never been that impressed with it. I find I need to wipe the bore more.

 

[BrownBear]

...but I think 15 to 20 is like a 22 and above that starts to get pretty hot for squirrel.

Snowshoe hare rather than squirrels, but in my experience that's still waaaaay too much. Drop a head shot down into the neck, and you'll be throwing away the front quarters and the front half of the loins. Blood shot is unbelievable. It's as bad or worse than a 22 mag hollowpoint. Remember that the ball starts at the surface at .310/.311 and continues on through. A little rimfire pill (.222/.223) has to pass quite a ways through flesh if it's ever going to expand so large. That's why I dropped down to 10 grains. It still shoots plenty flat, and near as I can tell by ear, falls just below sonic.

As for which lube is best, that's up to the rifle. Mine wasn't too picky, but I settled on the TOW mink oil grease for softer fouling and limited bore swabbing in the field.

As for the sprues on LEEs, that's one of the reasons I use a loading block. Easier to get the sprues right. The other is handling those little tiny balls with greasy fingers in the cold. I'm here to tell you that loading by hand in the field can result in a loss rate of greater than 50%. Those little tiny balls can disappear right into grass and leaves, much less into snow, when they hit the ground and bounce around a little! :rotf:

 

[Micah Clark]

Thanks . . I have a loading block that I need to throw in my bag . . . bore butter melts really quickly on a hot day and gets messy . . .i learned this real fast with my revolvers. . . now I tend to use a felt wad w them.

Just a general thought here -- This may be happening, but I live in Indiana, and Friendship, the home of the NMLRA, is here a few hours from my home. (Sadly, I don't live the pretty part of the state.) I've gone a couple of times.

I'd like to see a place like that have an "ask the expert" booth on the range in which someone like me, could present my problem with the Crockett -- AND SHOOT IT with an expert who could watch my load sequence say, "you're doing this wrong" . . . kind of a coaching thing. Other eyes can be really helpful.

That being said, this forum is the next best thing to that, and I appreciate it.

 

[32 ballard xl]

Well, for whatever it's worth, my grand father's only squirrel rifle was a Ballard #2, in 32 rimfire/32 Colt centerfire. His load was 13 grains of du Pont ffg under an 80 gr. Conical. The rifle was chambered for 32 Ballard Extra Long, which used 18 grs. of 2f, and a 105 gr bullet. Yes, you could use both loads because the bullets were heel seated, so essentially the 32 long load was freebored a little. He claimed the 32 Extra Long was much too much for squirrels, but the 13 gr. load was perfect for them. Killed them right now without tearing up the meat. His load chrongraphed at 1160 avg. fps. :stir:

 

[brjanes]

Try pyrodex pistol powder.Start using smaller loads and work your way up.

 

[Micah Clark]

Traditions tested my rifle with Pyrodex . . . I've got some really old Pyrodex . . but have mostly used Goex and Schutzen . . . do you think that Pyrodex works best in the Crockett?

 

[BrownBear]

Mine showed no preference between Pyrodex P and Goex 3f. Just fine with both, though not quite as accurate with the really light charges when using the P.

 

[Shifty]

And by the way I replaced the ram rod with a brass tubular one ,with the correct ends,loads those tight patches better,mink oil helped mine ,run a spit patch through about every 5 shots.And 10grns tears them up like my old Marlin 22 mag.

 

[Micah Clark]

We have a ML show here in February . . . I will get .18 patches and look at lubes like Mink oil . . . know a guy who uses one called Moose snot of all things . . .that will be there too. Will try to deburr the crown a bit too. . . then will go out burn some powered and review some patches.
Thanks for all the help.

 

[Blackfingers]

What about using some tow?