T/C Clean Out Screw Size

[ramblin man]

Hi, I quit buying the clean out screws from T/C years ago and have been getting them a couple of dozen at a time from a fastner company. I'm completely out of them and when I went to order some a minute ago my mind went completely blank. Senior moment? 8-32 x 1/4 is what I'm thinking, then when I'm about to hit the buy button online 6-32 x 1/4 pops in my head. Anyones memory working better than mine, or had enough sense to write the size down? Thanks RamblinMan

 

[Bill Hall]

I'm pretty sure they are 8/32. I'm thinking if you've ordered a couple dozen, and need more, then you've lost about 24 of those cleanout screws. Ya know, if you quit removing them, you won't lose any more. There is absolutely no need to remove them, ever. Removing the nipple is more than enough to flush out crud from the flash channel. You need to remove the nipple anyway to thoroughly clean the gun, so ask yourself why you need two holes, close together, to serve one purpose, especially when the nipple hole is the bigger hole.

Most of the time those cleanout screws are only there to plug up the hole left in the manufacturing process. That is where the flash channel is drilled, so then the resulting hole must be plugged.

My advice is to forget that so-called cleanout screw is there (after you replace it of course), and just remove the nipple for cleaning. The cleanout screw is just a boondoggle. Bill

 

[ramblin man]

snowdragon, thank you. Finally someone that I dont have to convice of exactly what you are saying. T/C got tired of doing warrenty work on the so called 'clean out screws' and in the later years drilled the fire channel in from the opposite of the barrel and plugged that hole where it couldnt be removed. I agree with you completely, it was never designed to be removed for cleaning the barrel. The reason I go through a couple of dozen every other year is I'm a part time,semi retired,muzzleloader gunsmith. Working on buggered up clean out screws and stripped nipple threads are the most common repairs I get. The more I've thought about it, you are right, they are 8-32 threads. When I did this full time I just pulled part numbers, thread sizes and such right out of my head. I'm getting a little old for that now. Gonna have to start writing stuff down. You give good advice! Thank you. :bow: :bow: I'm writing the thread size down now. Regards, RamblinMan

 

[Rifleman1776]

Amusing response. I almost wrote similar to what Snowdragon said.
Now.....tell me about changes that come with aging. :wink:

 

[ebiggs1]

Well for one thing,
my short term memory is gone.
And one other thing is my short term memory is gone.:idunno:


And, yes, snowdragon is spot on! :thumbsup:

 

[Billnpatti]

Hmmmm.....If I understand you, they are/were making their barrels by drilling from the opposite side of the barrel through the bore and into the snail and then plugging the hole on the opposite side of the barrel. How do they make the hole safe so it doesn't blow out and how do they smooth out the bore where the drill went through? The reason I ask, is that I inadvertantly drilled a hole through the side of a barrel and into the bore. Don't ask how or why. I contacted the barrel maker and asked if it could be repaired. I was told that it could not be safely repaired and not only that, if I tapped it and ran a bolt into the hole (about 3/32 inch, the size of a hole one might drill through the stock and an underbarrel lug to pin the stock). I ain't sayin' any more about that. Anyway, he told me that even if I did tap it and run a small bolt in the hole, it would leave a rough spot in the bore that would present problems. If all of this is correct, how does T/C do it safely and so that it doesn't cause a rough spot in the bore?

My plan to repair my barrel was to tap the existing hole, then make a lead slug by driving an oversize lead ball into the bore. I was going to push the lead slug down to where the hole was and then use it to stop the bolt when I screwed it in. I would put some JB-Weld on the threads and screw it in until the bolt lightly bottoms out against the lead plug. I would cut off the bolt slightly above the side of the barrel and peen it down flush with the barrel flat. Then use the lead slug and some valve grinding compound to smooth out and flush up the point where the bolt entered the bore. Would this work safely or does T/C have a better idea?

 

[ramblin man]

I was taught not tell my elders anything. I just listen and learn. If I could just remember what they said.........



.
The United States Constitution Copyright 1791 All Rights Reserved

 

[ebiggs1]

They don't drill in the barrel. They drill through the snail breech plug.

 

[necchi]

Right, like this,

This is a Renegade Breech, there is no clean-out screw, they drill from the opposite side and then plug the hole.

 

[Bill Hall]

The reason I go through a couple of dozen every other year is I'm a part time,semi retired,muzzleloader gunsmith. Working on buggered up clean out screws and stripped nipple threads are the most common repairs I get.

My apologies for jumping to conclusions and being a smarty alec :surrender:. Sounds like you know more about those silly screws than I do.

I always wondered why those dang screws were even there until I used a blank breechplug to build a rifle. I ended up drilling through the side of the snail for the flash channel, and then of course I had to plug the hole. Then it was clear why T/C had the screw there, only T/C gave it an important name and job after the fact.

All the other breechplugs I have used have the flash channel drilled at an angle, from the hole in the face straight to the bottom of the nipple hole. I think T/C would have eventually figured out this is the best method, only by then they pretty much got out of the sidelock business.

And I did hear that T/C started drilling from the left side, but I wasn't sure whether they still had the cleanout screw or not.

Happy gunsmithing :thumbsup:. Bill

 

[ramblin man]

While we are dispelling common misconceptions, here is another one I've encountered often through the years. I've had many barrels come in the shop with buggered up breech plug threads. Some novice shooters think that the breech plug should be removed periodiclly to clean the barrel. T/C added to this misconception by selling Breech Plug Removal Tools/Wrenches in three sizes for a number of years. Once again they got tired of doing warrenty work on the breech threads or having to reindex the plug. They quit making and selling the tools. They also started torqueing the heck out of the breech plugs using thread locker similar to Loctite. On the later model barrels you can wring the threads off sometimes before they will unscrew. T/C and some of the rest of us had to learn some things the hard way. Regards, RamblinMan

 

[Bill Hall]

Shot themselves in the foot, didn't they? Now they are probably busy fixing mangled breechplugs, from all those left over breechplug wrenches. Too funny. Bill

 

[Rifleman1776]

While we are dispelling common misconceptions, here is another one I've encountered often through the years. I've had many barrels come in the shop with buggered up breech plug threads. Some novice shooters think that the breech plug should be removed periodiclly to clean the barrel. T/C added to this misconception by selling Breech Plug Removal Tools/Wrenches in three sizes for a number of years. Once again they got tired of doing warrenty work on the breech threads or having to reindex the plug. They quit making and selling the tools. They also started torqueing the heck out of the breech plugs using thread locker similar to Loctite. On the later model barrels you can wring the threads off sometimes before they will unscrew. T/C and some of the rest of us had to learn some things the hard way. Regards, RamblinMan

Very true. I have one of those TC 'hawken' wrenches. Have never used it and have declined to loan out several times knowing the borrower would probably do considerable damage to his rifle. If ever absolutely necessary to use, the breech end of the barrel should be clamped securly right near the breech/barrel joint in a large vise otherwise the barrel will torque and twist.

 

[Billnpatti]

Does anyone think I can repair my barrel? $200 is a terrible thing to waste.

 

[necchi]

Where is the hole?
6" from the breech? At the breech? 6" from the muzzle? Smack dab in the middle?

Can you see where it went through? Did it hit one of the lands one of the flats or both?

The fix you suggest in your post is about the only one I can think of too, but I'd weld the bolt after the cut instead of peening it down and clean up the weld.

But the repair, no matter what, will still be a patch shreader and a place for corrosion to start inside the bore. :idunno:

Or cut off the barrel near the hole and use it for something else,????

 

[Billnpatti]

It's about 1 ft. from the breach. No way of knowing if it is on a land or groove or both. If I cut off the barrel, it will be tooo short for a rifle and the twist rate is way too slow for a pistol. Am I screwed?

 

[Bill Hall]

Yep, you're going to have to fess up to exactly what you did in order to get a clear picture. Where on the barrel is the hole? What is the diameter of the hole? A picture is worth a thousand words.

And Like Necchi said, you're just never going to be able to clean up the inside of the bore where that hole isn't going to be a problem. Even if it's behind the ball, in the powder load, it will be a corrosion issue. If it's in front of the ball, you're never going to smooth it down by lapping or "leading". By the time you got that bolt end shaped and smooth, the rest of your rifling will be changed dramatically.

Plugging the hole can be done, and it may even be a real shooter, but it's always going to be an issue that won't fix itself. Just so you know what you're in for. Bill

 

[Zonie]

In my opinion, your repair is going to be safe from a shooting standpoint if you use the correct size tap drill and tap some good threads thru the wall.
Do use the smallest screw size that will assure full threads after your done.

The reason for this is the length of the installed screw needs to be at least as long as it is in diameter.
That is, if it is a #8 screw, it is .164 nominal diameter so it needs to be at least .164 long when it is installed.
A longer length doesn't add any strength but a shorter length does weaken the strength of the assembly.

It certainly isn't any weaker than the "cleanout screw" found on many caplocks.

It is going to cause a rough spot that might tare patches when they are fired, but the only way to find out if this hurts the accuracy is to try it.

As you've noticed by now, the thru hole that TC drilled and plugged is not in the area of the guns bore. It is back in the powder chamber of the breech where the ball and patch will never reach.

Good luck with your project.

 

[BrianL]

Another option would be to cut and re-breech for an 18-20" barrel. This will involve moving the barrel tenon and rib, sight mounting holes. I did this with a ring bulged 54 cal Green Mt drop in and the resulting 22" barrel shoots great

 

[Billnpatti]

I guess I could either cut it off and re-breach it to make a short barreled rifle or drill a few more holes and make a piccolo. :haha: