Sighting in a new(to me) rifle

[Coalforge]

Have your tang and breech put on another barrel.

Part of the problem with the re barrel is that the tang is formed from the barrel and the breech plug is a hex plug under the tang. This is just something that I thought might be an interesting problem that no one seems to have tried. My brother had a high power rifle straightened years ago so I know it can be done. We are likely talking about a couple thousandths over 30 inches. Like I said, "The Hawken Shop" has a barrel straightening press so we will see how it goes.

 

[Bad Karma]

Have your tang and breech put on another barrel.

Part of the problem with the re barrel is that the tang is formed from the barrel and the breech plug is a hex plug under the tang. This is just something that I thought might be an interesting problem that no one seems to have tried. My brother had a high power rifle straightened years ago so I know it can be done. We are likely talking about a couple thousandths over 30 inches. Like I said, "The Hawken Shop" has a barrel straightening press so we will see how it goes.

I might be way off base but whatever amount your sights are offset would be the amount the barrel would need to bend wouldn’t it? I truly don’t know but that’s what makes sense to my admittedly simple brain... however it works out, best of luck.

Oh, and would you post pictures of the process and results? Thanks!

 

[Ron Wilkerson]

I would not sell a gun like that. I would not be able to sleep at night knowing I did that to anybody. That is a bad suggestion in my op.

 

[Rifleman1776]

we will give bending the barrel a try

After bending that barrel very likely will not fit into the stock and then you will have nothing.

 

[arcticap]

We are likely talking about a couple thousandths over 30 inches. Like I said, "The Hawken Shop" has a barrel straightening press so we will see how it goes.

In post #16 of this thread [page 1], I provided a formula that could reveal how much the front sight needs to be moved just to sight in at 25 yards.
The amount could change considerably for 50, 75 & 100 yards.
If the simple calculations haven't been done then what is the basis for saying only a couple of thousandths?
It may be tenth of an inch of barrel adjustment is needed to shoot to point of impact at 50 - 100 yards.
Why not try some calculations for 25 or 50 yards to get a better estimation?
What if the barrel currently shoots 20 inches off center at 100 yards?
The calculation that the formula provides may give you a better idea before paying for barrel bending.
The amount of the calculation may even be able to be split between both the front and rear sight by moving them in opposite directions.
The barrel bending may work fine for all I know, but who will know how much it will need to be bent if the problem is caused by bore run out and not a bent barrel?

 

[Rat]

Is this a half-stock, or full stock rifle? Is it an Italian rifle, mass-produced, semi-factory job, or handmade rifle? Is it a Hawken replica? Curious minds want to know. !!!! With a run-out bore, and bent barrel, whatever it is, we shall call this rifle: "Catty-Wonkus".

 

[Robert McPhee]

Haven't seen this mentioned, but the first thing I wold do is check the muzzle for squareness to the bore. If the barrel is not cut off at exactly 90 degrees, the ball will be pushed to the side upon exiting. Use a machinist square.

 

[Coalforge]

Haven't seen this mentioned, but the first thing I wold do is check the muzzle for squareness to the bore. If the barrel is not cut off at exactly 90 degrees, the ball will be pushed to the side upon exiting. Use a machinist square.

Good point. I didn't think of that. i will get that checked.

 

[Sinner]

I don't see where you said if you inspected the front sight for being bent and the rear sight notch.

 

[Rat]

Haven't seen this mentioned, but the first thing I wold do is check the muzzle for squareness to the bore. If the barrel is not cut off at exactly 90 degrees, the ball will be pushed to the side upon exiting. Use a machinist square.

But, I think we already know the bore is off center, "runout". ?? Yes? Did something change? Hey I know...cut the muzzle off crooked/at an angle until the ball goes right. Yeah...yeah...that would be cool. Would look nice too. Very unique. We'll change her name from "Catty-Wonkus", to: "Crooked Mouth". Oh I crack myself up.

 

[Rat]

I don't see where you said if you inspected the front sight for being bent and the rear sight notch.

The bore was drilled off center, or "runout". Not a sight problem. Barrel is trash.

 

[Britsmoothy]

But, I think we already know the bore is off center, "runout". ?? Yes? Did something change? Hey I know...cut the muzzle off crooked/at an angle until the ball goes right. Yeah...yeah...that would be cool. Would look nice too. Very unique. We'll change her name from "Catty-Wonkus", to: "Crooked Mouth". Oh I crack myself up.

Actually a ball or shot can be steered by relieving gasses early on one side of the muzzle and not much is needed.
I have done it to numerous guns and seen it on many an old English gun. It is a lost art, many now believing only a truly square muzzle will suffice.

 

[Coalforge]

Actually a ball or shot can be steered by relieving gasses early on one side of the muzzle and not much is needed.
I have done it to numerous guns and seen it on many an old English gun. It is a lost art, many now believing only a truly square muzzle will suffice.

Sounds like something to look at. The barrel is no good at this point so any experimenting won't hurt anything.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Sounds like something to look at. The barrel is no good at this point so any experimenting won't hurt anything.

Give it a try. It is if unsuccessful completely reversible.
Pm sent.

 

[Danny Ross]

Before you bend anything!! You maybe an experienced shooter you may not, I take nothing for granted. You are not saying whether you are bench shooting or free hand shooting, and you didn't say which way you drifted your rear sight. You should have a solid rest to start with. So here are my suggestions. First center up your rear sight back to the center of your barrel. First question is are you canting your rifle when shooting and/or is the stock's butt cut causing you to cant it? The sights need to be straight up not tilted when shooting. If you are canting the gun right, you are going to shoot right, no matter how far you move your sight. Second are you slapping or jerking the trigger instead of squeezing it? Third are you centering your front sight in the rear sight or is it off to the right side when you are shooting? If that front blade is to the right in your rear sight with the target centered on top of the blade, you will shoot right. Your focus should be on the front sight with the spot you want to hit setting on the top center of that front sight with it centered in the rear sight (the rear sight will appear fuzzy). If your are SURE you have a solid rest and you are not canting the gun, not slapping or jerking the trigger, have the front sight centered in your rear sight, and the spot you want to hit is centered on the front sight. It takes less movement of the front sight to bring the impact over than moving the rear sight. Put a pencil mark on the left edge of your front sight blade on the barrel. TAP the front sight to the right a little. That mark on the barrel will show you how much your have moved it. Shoot 2-3 rounds to see if they are hitting consistently. If you are still shooting right wipe off the first mark and put a new mark on the barrel at the left edge of the front sight again and tap it over again a little. Then shoot 2-3 rounds again and see how they group. Keep this up until you start hitting center or left. If you start hitting left then tap the sight back left closer to your last pencil mark shoot 2-3 till you see if you brought it back far enough. Some thing else just occurred to me, is the rear sight notch cut in the center of that rear sight blade? If that V notch is cut to far right of center in the rear blade, that also could be part of the problem also. If you are an experienced shooter I apologize, but again I take nothing for granted especially if someone is talking bending a barrel when something else may be the problem. DANNY

 

[Kansas Jake]

Before bending a rifle barrel with bad run out, I think I would replace it. If it is a really good barrel otherwise, then I would see about using it with the run out on the vertical plane. Then you could sight it in and have an accurate rifle. It might be ugly with dovetail cuts on side flats though.

 

[Rat]

Before you bend anything!! You maybe an experienced shooter you may not, I take nothing for granted. You are not saying whether you are bench shooting or free hand shooting, and you didn't say which way you drifted your rear sight. You should have a solid rest to start with. So here are my suggestions. First center up your rear sight back to the center of your barrel. First question is are you canting your rifle when shooting and/or is the stock's butt cut causing you to cant it? The sights need to be straight up not tilted when shooting. If you are canting the gun right, you are going to shoot right, no matter how far you move your sight. Second are you slapping or jerking the trigger instead of squeezing it? Third are you centering your front sight in the rear sight or is it off to the right side when you are shooting? If that front blade is to the right in your rear sight with the target centered on top of the blade, you will shoot right. Your focus should be on the front sight with the spot you want to hit setting on the top center of that front sight with it centered in the rear sight (the rear sight will appear fuzzy). If your are SURE you have a solid rest and you are not canting the gun, not slapping or jerking the trigger, have the front sight centered in your rear sight, and the spot you want to hit is centered on the front sight. It takes less movement of the front sight to bring the impact over than moving the rear sight. Put a pencil mark on the left edge of your front sight blade on the barrel. TAP the front sight to the right a little. That mark on the barrel will show you how much your have moved it. Shoot 2-3 rounds to see if they are hitting consistently. If you are still shooting right wipe off the first mark and put a new mark on the barrel at the left edge of the front sight again and tap it over again a little. Then shoot 2-3 rounds again and see how they group. Keep this up until you start hitting center or left. If you start hitting left then tap the sight back left closer to your last pencil mark shoot 2-3 till you see if you brought it back far enough. Some thing else just occurred to me, is the rear sight notch cut in the center of that rear sight blade? If that V notch is cut to far right of center in the rear blade, that also could be part of the problem also. If you are an experienced shooter I apologize, but again I take nothing for granted especially if someone is talking bending a barrel when something else may be the problem. DANNY

The barrel has "run-out". The bore is not centered in the barrel. The bore is "catty wonkus". Bore is pointing left, when the barrel is pointed straight.

 

[Rat]

Before bending a rifle barrel with bad run out, I think I would replace it. If it is a really good barrel otherwise, then I would see about using it with the run out on the vertical plane. Then you could sight it in and have an accurate rifle. It might be ugly with dovetail cuts on side flats though.

The trouble there, I believe, is then the bore will either be pointing up, or down, which will change elevation at different ranges more than normal. That would also require re-breeching, (breaching?) the time and effort would be better spent just putting that breach and tang on a good barrel. As barrels are not that expensive, and the rifle was bought for the price of the lock, I fail to understand the reluctance to do so. The old dove-tail cuts could be filled, and filed down, and the whole she-bang re-blued or browned...but...why. !!!

 

[arcticap]

Perhaps if you cut the barrel in half and there will only be half the amount of run out left to deal with.
Just keep the middle part of the barrel. LOL!

 

[Sinner]

The trouble there, I believe, is then the bore will either be pointing up, or down, which will change elevation at different ranges more than normal. That would also require re-breeching, (breaching?) the time and effort would be better spent just putting that breach and tang on a good barrel. As barrels are not that expensive, and the rifle was bought for the price of the lock, I fail to understand the reluctance to do so. The old dove-tail cuts could be filled, and filed down, and the whole she-bang re-blued or browned...but...why. !!!

Taking that into account, I agree that it doesn't make sense to go through all this angst instead of just replacing the barrel.