Sighting in a new(to me) rifle

Discussion in 'Percussion Rifles' started by Coalforge, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. Mar 11, 2019 #21

    Goose

    Goose

    Goose

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    i would be inclined to either do a barrel swap, make it a wall-hanger, or sell it outright
     
  2. Mar 11, 2019 #22

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

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    If the run out is on the horizontal or close to it, it could be fixed with a lot of work by rotating the barrel so the run out is on the vertical. That would require rebreeching and new dove tails for the sights and barrel loops. Also the old dovetails would have to be filled and would end up where they could be seen on the side of the barrel. It is too bad that whoever made the rifle in the first place didn't check the run out and orient the barrel so it was less of a problem.
     
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  3. Mar 12, 2019 #23

    Fatelvis

    Fatelvis

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    By any chance are you cross eyed dominant? Have you had windage problems with other rifles in the past?
     
  4. Mar 12, 2019 #24

    Coalforge

    Coalforge

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    I doubt that is the problem. I took top shooter in my club last year with a different rifle. "The Hawken Shop" is my local black powder shop. Greg has a barrel press so we will give bending the barrel a try. If it doesn't work, I am not out anything. The tang on this particular rifle is part of the barrel with the breech plug being a hex drive plug under the tang. This makes rotating the barrel or even replacing the barrel much more of a problem.
     
  5. Mar 13, 2019 #25

    Rat

    Rat

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    Yes, on barrel bending, it will correct POI at a specific range, and then will be off again at closer and further than that range. It won't save the barrel.

    Can you get satisfaction from the person you bought it from? The fact that the sights were not drifted way over when you bought/got it, seems to indicate that somebody drifted them back, and then failed to mention, "forgot" to tell you it shoots two counties to the right. Did anyone mention that it shot a "little" to the right. I'm very curious as to the history of the first two sales, who made the gun, and what you were told. ???

    You may have to be the one to be honest, and take the loss. Perhaps it would be something a riflemaker might take off your hands and want to re-barrel. Otherwise I think it's going to be a chalk it up to experience thing. Again, who sold you the rifle? I'd be a little upset with them.
     
  6. Mar 13, 2019 #26

    Sinner

    Sinner

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    Personally, if it shoots as good as you say, and you don't feel you can drift both the rear and front sights in opposite directions to get your point of impact equal your point of aim, I'd just make the corrections in my aim. I sure wouldn't get rid of a barrel that would put 5 shots touching.
     
  7. Mar 13, 2019 #27

    Britsmoothy

    Britsmoothy

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    How about shooting it gangster like?
    On its side, works in the film's!
     
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  8. Mar 13, 2019 #28

    Eterry

    Eterry

    Eterry

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    Rather than move the sights, you can fill the existing notches with epoxy and cut new notches. I did this on a Navy musketoon with sights fixed for windage.

    You see a lot of skirmisher muskets done that way.
     
  9. Mar 13, 2019 #29

    Sinner

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    Another thought is to get a rear sight without the notch filed, and file a notch that will give you the correct point of impact. I 'm assuming you checked the existing rear sight notch for alignment and front sight for being bent?
     
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  10. Mar 13, 2019 #30

    Rat

    Rat

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    A rifle that puts five shots touching, (wasn't that at 25 yards, where almost any barrel will shoot that well?) at only one specific range, with the sights totally catty-wonkus, hanging out into thin air left and right, is not what I'd call a "keeper". Kentucky windage, that actually does not work so well. Brit actually has the best advice on shooting this rifle.

    Don't forget that with an off center bore, a bent barrel, or a combination of the two, the rifle will only be capable of being sighted in for one specific distance. Anything further, or closer, and it will be off either left or right. Even if you rotate the barrel so the bore is pointing up, or down, you will get the same effect, except it will be the elevation.

    Again, what kind of rifle is this, who sold it to you, who were the previous owners, and who made the rifle? (if it's a handmade) I sure hope it will not be passed on to another unsuspecting buyer. If it is a handmade rifle, it might be a good public service announcement to ID the maker, as making a rifle, and not noticing that the barrel is bored off center is not the best endorsement of skill and craftsmanship.
     
  11. Mar 13, 2019 #31

    Woodnbow

    Woodnbow

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    I’m sorry you got stuck with a pig in a poke. I’d source a new barrel, hang this one on a wall, scrap it for parts, or all the above. But I wouldn’t saddle some other unfortunate soul with this problem...
     
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  12. Mar 13, 2019 #32

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

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    A non-traditional solution might be to put a rear peep sight on it with enough windage movement to get good sight setting or even a slight offset mounting.
     
  13. Mar 14, 2019 #33

    Tom Compton

    Tom Compton

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    You said it is a new gun. Contact the manufacturer and get another barrel.
     
  14. Mar 14, 2019 #34

    Rat

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    He said it was only new to him. We are missing a lot of information here...OP seems reluctant to give details? Again, no matter how far you hang a sight off the side, peep or any other, the rifle will not shoot to POA at different ranges. Only at the range it is sighted in at.

    If it's shooting way off at 25 yards, as the OP says, and he gets it sighted at 25, it will be "way off" at 50 yards, and way-way off at 100. If he got/gets his POA to match his POI at 100, it will be way off at 25, 50, and anything over 100. The barrel is a loss.

    The best suggestions are to re-barrel it, and for the OP to wrap the funky barrel around the head of the person that sold it to him. That would not be that big of a deal. (or shoot it gangster style, per Brit) Bending it is not an option, and the side pressure of the stock on the barrel, once bent will not enhance accuracy. And again, even a smooth bore will shoot impressive groups at 25 yards. "Five holes touching" at 25 yards only shows that the barrel likes the load, the bore and rifling are good, and that the shooter is doing his job well.

    I for one would really like to see the OP fill in the blanks. More information. Again, who made the rifle? Was the price "too good to be true"? What else does he know about it's history? Stuff like that. But bottom line, he's not going to "fix" that barrel, or get any kind of satisfactory sighting system on it. Other than a scope, where you could adjust it with a specific number of "clicks" left or right, for every 25 yard change in range. ???????????!!
     
  15. Mar 14, 2019 #35

    Coalforge

    Coalforge

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    Not reluctant to give details. I am not sure what I didn't post. The brand is a Richlund or Richmond. There is a screw hole in the middle of the word. I got it for a bit more than the price of the lock. I have no history on the gun. Dutch Schoultz had a similar one about 30 years ago. For some reason, I find this an extremely comfortable weapon to shoot. I am not really out anything if bending the barrel doesn't work. I might see what i have for a receiver sight that might work first. I will post results but I had an operation on my right shoulder and can't do any shooting yet. Any other information you want, let me know.
     
  16. Mar 14, 2019 #36

    arcticap

    arcticap

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    You may be right Rat.
    But on the other hand, if the sights were mounted to be parallel with the actual run out of the bore to match it, then it wouldn't only be accurate for a specific distance, would it?
    Another thought that I had was if the exterior dimensions on both sides of the barrel could be honed to match the barrel exterior with the run out of the bore, then perhaps the barrel channel could be re-bedded with compound so that the bore more closely lined up with the direction of the barrel channel and stock.
    But the barrel breech would need to be cut off and re-breeched since the tang would be out of alignment, and the lock position may need work too.
    Not worth ruining the stock over a bad barrel.

    I suppose that the barrel could be cut up and used to make pistol barrels with if the run out problem could be corrected in sections by honing the exterior dimensions to align with the interior bore.
    Once roughly aligned, the sections could be rebreech for project guns.
    Otherwise the barrel wouldn't have much of any value.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  17. Mar 15, 2019 #37

    8 BORE

    8 BORE

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    Cant really bend a rifle barrel. Too many things will will go wrong.
    Shotgun yes.
     
  18. Mar 15, 2019 #38

    Rat

    Rat

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    On the first sentence, good question. !!! I'm gonna have to think about that! Seems that would be true....but, what would the hold be like...?? That's a mind-bender. On Your second thought, that all still seems more trouble than to just re-barrel it.
    I like the suggestion: "I suppose the barrel could be cut up", I'd take that right out of context and leave it there!
     
  19. Mar 15, 2019 #39

    Rat

    Rat

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    Well, sounds like if you got the rifle for the price of the lock, (I'm not surprised) the most easy thing would be to re-barrel it. Why mess with a bad barrel? You will be out time and hassle. Have your tang and breech put on another barrel. Sorry about your shoulder. From now on, only injure the left one. !
     
  20. Mar 15, 2019 #40

    arcticap

    arcticap

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    I guess that's why there are people who specialize in stock bending and adjustments.
     
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