shotgun questions

[teakmtn]

This section seems to be mostly Trade guns and Smooth Rifles. However, I have a 12 GA Pedersoli side by side coming.
This is my first BP shotgun. Therefore have never really paid attention to posts regarding the art and science of loading and shooting one. I did a brief search here and will do some more, but can anyone make suggestions as to maybe more specific forums to go to for advice? First specific question, is 3f safe to use? Many more questions to come. I don't even know what questions to ask yet. Thanks in advance.

 

[Golfswithwolves]

I suggest that you check out Mr. V. M. Starr on the Interweb. His "little book" is a great reference and is available to download for free on several sites.

 

[bpd303]

I would not use 3f in a 12 ga shotgun. All of my loads seem to pattern better with 2f. As far as 3f being safe, it probably is with reduced charges.

 

[teakmtn]

I ask about 3f because I have 10+ lbs of 3f and no 2f. And cannot buy BP locally.

 

[George]

I have used 3F in my 12 gauge SxS with good results. In my gun 2F seems to give me slightly better patterns, but there is not a big difference. I shoot 50-65 grains of 3F and have no safety concerns. If I had a surplus of 3F I'd shoot it.

I usually load powder, a 1/8" hard or nitro card, then a 1/2" fiber wad lubricated with lard+beeswax, then shot and a thin overshot wad. I also get good results using 2 of the 1/8" cards and no lubricated fiber wad, but then will need to swab the bore occasionally. The lubricated wads help keep the fouling soft and at a minimum. 2F is definitely dirtier than 3F in my experience.

I usually shoot equal volumes of powder and shot, simply use the same measure for both, but in some guns I find that I get better patterns by using slightly more shot than powder.

Most of my shotgunning is done with a 20 gauge, and I use 3F routinely in those, have good results.

You didn't say if your gun will be choked. If it is, that will make a difference in your wadding system.

Spence

 

[Britsmoothy]

I ask about 3f because I have 10+ lbs of 3f and no 2f. And cannot buy BP locally.

3f is fine bro and is my choice in all the Pedersoli 12g and a 10g. (4 12g).
Measure 1&1/8oz of shot. Use the same measure for the powder but by all means use a pinch less powder if you wish.
Don't fuss over fancy wads. Just use four over shot cards on the powder.
An occasional blob of lube between the cards will keep the foul soft....go shoot :hatsoff:

B.

 

[matt denison]

3F is safe to use but watch out how much you dump in there. I'd suggest that you start with (using an adjustable powder measure) 65 grains of 3F and equal amount of shot using the same measure. Purchase 12 ga. wads somewhere like trackofthewolf.com. Dump the powder in, put an over powder (OP) wad down on top of it. Add the shot and an over shot (OS) wad on top to hold it all in. Shoot it at a pattern board (newspaper or equivelant something or other like cardboard.) and see what the pattern looks like. Report back here with the results and more advice. There are several on this forum who shoot doubles and who I am sure know more than i do about them. I only hope to get you started in the right direction safely.

 

[robinghewitt]

I'd say the load probably depends on the weight of the gun and how much you plan to shoot it. You wouldn't load the same for a clay shoot as you would if you were going to stalk all day for a couple of shots. I use Swiss #4 for choice which is 1 1/2 Fg but I have used all kinds of powder and the only real difference I have seen is the fouling :idunno: :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

For the newbies to black powder shooting, the European numbers for black powder are different than the ones the same company uses in the USA.

Swiss #4 powder is not the 4F (FFFF) powder sold in the USA.

As Squire Robin says, it is a bit courser than 2Fg powder.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I have a pedroseli 12 ga. sxs, and I have shot FFF in it (sixty grain) but it does better with FF (75 grain). I use two over powder 1/4 inch leather wads, a shot cartridge( from 1&1/8-hunting- to 1&1/4 ounce shot-trap) made from three thickness of news print tied shut with kite string, filled,twisted, folded over and tied again. I do not use an over shot card since the folded over end serves as one. :idunno:

 

[Treestalker]

If I may offer a word of advice from experience, after loading one barrel of a double gun, Leave The Ramrod in the barrel until you've loaded the other barrel! And always load the same barrel first. That way you will not double charge a barrel and the loading sequence will become a habit. I believe the double BP shotgun is one of the most fun guns there is. Cheers, Treestalker. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

V.M. Starr will be a great read for you. The man knows whereof he speaks.

 

[bpd303]

From V. M. Star:

I might as well go on record here as being against the use of FFFg in any shot gun larger than a 28 ga., and even in that FFg is better. My experience has taught me that FFFg is too wild for shot guns and by burning too fast runs pressures up too high and causes entirely too much abuse to both gun and shooter and will gain nothing whatever in the way of greater effectiveness, and will make the gun much more unpleasant to shoot and also has a decided tendency to blow up patterns. The old idea that is still hanging around in shooter's minds that when she kicks hard she shoots hard just ain't so. Any man shooting a gun with moderate loads that is pleasant to shoot will kill more game in a given number of shots than the same man with the same gun that is over loaded so that it is unpleasant to shoot.

My experience exactly.

 

[matt denison]

I ask about 3f because I have 10+ lbs of 3f and no 2f. And cannot buy BP locally.

Forget V.M. Star. This is the poster's situation. He's not asking which is better, only if it is OK to shoot 3F in his shotgun.

 

[BrownBear]

I've tried 3f in both 20 and 12 gauge, but only got decent patterns with light-for-gauge charges. When hunting snowshoe hare with dogs (rare these days since we no longer have our own dogs), my standard load with the 20 is 5/8 oz of shot with 40 grains of 3f. Same hunting with the 12, I use 7/8 oz of shot with 50 grains of 3f.

At the closer ranges, patterning isn't quite so important, so it worked. I just never found happiness with 3f, but maybe I quit working on it too soon.

My thinking in trying was to follow the old advice of shooting 10 grains less (by volume) of powder than shot, but reduced by another 10 grains to allow for the switch from 2f to 3f. Total reduction amounts to 20 grains less powder by volume than shot.

I'm by no means implying that you need to stick to super-light shot charges in order to work with 3f. Rather I was using them because they suited my needs. For heavier shot charges I'd start with 10 grains less 3f than any 2f load you see recommended, but move to lighter powder charges rather than heavier if you're not getting the patterning you want. In any case, I'd be reluctant to go higher than 1 1/4 oz of shot in a 12 and 1 oz in a 20.

 

[Golfswithwolves]

I ask about 3f because I have 10+ lbs of 3f and no 2f. And cannot buy BP locally.

If you wish to buy any other powder, I can recommend Graf & Sons, Inc. as one of several good mail-order suppliers (www.grafs.com). Unfortunately there is the government's Hazardous Materials fee to pay for shipping black powder through the mail, but at least you can obtain the powder. Best to buy a quantity at one time because of this fee, but you will need a quantity if you shoot your shotgun a bit!

 

[Patocazador]

I seem to get better patterns with 2F (and even 1F) than with 3F in my 12 gauge. Plus 3F punches me quite a bit more. I think the higher velocity of 3F tends to blow through patterns as they exit the barrel .. just theory but it seems that way to me.

 

[bpd303]

Laffindog:
If you will note the OP's original post and my first answer.

This section seems to be mostly Trade guns and Smooth Rifles. However, I have a 12 GA Pedersoli side by side coming.
This is my first BP shotgun. Therefore have never really paid attention to posts regarding the art and science of loading and shooting one. I did a brief search here and will do some more, but can anyone make suggestions as to maybe more specific forums to go to for advice? First specific question, is 3f safe to use? Many more questions to come. I don't even know what questions to ask yet. Thanks in advance.

Age: 71
Loc: Carroll County, AR
08-14-14 11:22 AM - Post#1417917
In response to teakmtn

I would not use 3f in a 12 ga shotgun. All of my loads seem to pattern better with 2f. As far as 3f being safe, it probably is with reduced charges.

 

[Lonegun1894]

As has been said, 3F may not be optimum, but it is safe as long as you adjust the loads. I use it in my 13ga (.710" bore instead of the roughly .729" of the 12ga), and it works perfectly fine for my needs. You have to play with loads to figure out what your gun likes anyway, so you may as well use the powder you have available also. Just try different things to see what your gun likes, and make sure you give it a fair chance instead of trying one or two combinations and quitting if you don't get what you were hoping for. Your gun will do just fine. If you think of any more questions, and they will come up in time, just ask, cause there's going to be someone here who has had the same problem and can help you.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I don't adjust any of my loads when using 3f in my Pedersoli. Equal volume all the way to 1&1/4oz if I wish :hmm:
I have not seen any contradictory advice from Pedersoli!

B.