• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades
  • Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Shipping Insurance Problems?

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Stalker

32 Cal.
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
A gunsmith friend of mine gets a lot of deliveries from delivery companies (UPS etc.) and does not have good things to say about insurance claims he has had to make with them. They seem to always have
an excuse why they are exempt from paying the claim.

Has anyone had any similar experiences?
 
not yet.. but that is really typical of any insurance policy.. deny claim and see if it goes away.
 
Of Course. That is why people hire lawyers to sue people responsible for damage, and loss of property. Insurance companies make money by overcharging their customers on premiums, and paying out less on claims. They don't even have the decency to wear a Mask when they take your money!

Seriously, Insurance companies have a long list or "excuses" that they use to discourage, and drive away legitimate claims. You will need a team of horses( or a good lawyer) to even get a copy of the Insurance policy they so freely "Quote" over the phone to you.

And, of course, the claims adjuster is Not a lawyer, and certainly is Not working for you. I sued an insurance company years ago that refused to pay my client's claim, and Won. They purposely mis-used the terminology in their own policy to deny her claim.

The irony was that after I won the case, the lawyer representing the insurance company told me that his company had paid out claims for medical treatment over the prior 5 years to the clinics and doctors who Misdiagnosed her condition. Those claims paid amounted to more than twice what it cost my client to actually get the proper treatment from another medical provider.

So, if your own insurance policy covers your loss, make the claim on your own insurance, and let the Insurance companies fight it out as to who will eventually pay the entire claim. They deserve each other. If you don't have insurance coverage, than talk to a lawyer about going after the carrier's insurance company.

Most States have legislation that allows the court to award additional Money damages to the plaintiff if the Court finds that an Insurance company is acting in bad faith in refusing a claim.

Once a lawyer gets involved, that claims adjuster who gets paid bonuses at the end of the year for all the claims he discourages, turns everything over to the Insurance Company's lawyers, and small claims are usually paid simply because the company cannot afford to pay its lawyer lots of money to continue to deny your claim, knowing that a BAD FAITH count will appear in the complaint your lawyer files against the company. When judgments are entered against insurance companies for acting in bad faith, that judgment is reported to your state's Insurance office or commission. Those agencies regulate who can do insurance business in your state and who can't. A bad faith judgment is usually taken very seriously by these State officials, and the companies don't want to then have to spend even more money defending themselves in a hearing to revoke their license to do business in your state.

I just thought you should know about a lot of these things that are never mentioned by insurance agents to their customers. And, perhaps, you now better understand my low opinion of the Insurance business.
 
Stalker said:
A gunsmith friend of mine gets a lot of deliveries from delivery companies (UPS etc.) and does not have good things to say about insurance claims he has had to make with them. They seem to always have
an excuse why they are exempt from paying the claim.

Has anyone had any similar experiences?


The worst claims experiences I have had have been with the USPS. Statistics show they pay far fewer claims than even the worst of the worst of the private delivery companies.
 
I, like Paul, am also a lawyer.

Had I written the orignal post, I would have asked who did NOT have the same experience as the 'smith.
 
I am not a lawyer. But I have learned one thing that has helped me out tremendously. I document everything. I write down everything. Names, dates, conversations. Everything. As well as take plenty of pictures. And never accept anything without a visual inspection of the package.

Whenever you present a company with the facts they tend to treat you differently than a person who calls without a clue. Tom.
 
First of all, a person recieving something damaged isn't responsible for the claim. Responsibility is on the shipper. Always. So something doesn't sound right in his statement.

On the other hand, as someone who ships many guns a year I have to insure them. Filing a claim is a horrible experience. For instance I will never use FedEx ever again. They smashed and then lost one of my guns. It was like pulling one of my own teeth to find it and then file the claim. They lost the paper work TWICE then after that was cleared up they claimed that I hadn't packed it correctly. (excuse no. two) After ninety one days and uncountable phone calls they finally came up with the REPLACEMENT VALUE, not the amount that I had insured for. Replacement value is the cost of the parts that were broken (the stock) not the value of the gun as insured. Grrr. I ended up feeling lucky that I got anything. Meanwhile the customer was the one left hanging, waiting for something that he paid for but not getting it in a timely manner.

So, I pay hundreds of dollars per year for insuring stuff that never gets busted or lost but when you finally have a claim, UPS, USPS, or otherwise, you play Hell trying to get satisfaction. It's all a scam, or a necessary evil. :cursing:
 
A few years ago I bought a traveling clock makers box full of tools and parts from a local family at a garage sale. The box was a family heirloom origionally used by a family member who traveled around PA and fixed clocks in the early 1800's.
I put the box and tools up for sale on an auction site and it sold for big money. The buyer was in the MidWest and he wanted it shipped via UPS. The box weighed around 35 pounds as I recall. It was insured for the auction sale price.
When the box arrived it was smashed and too0ls had spilled out of the shipping container. There was a tire track on the shipping container !. The buyer noted it and took pictures. Then we started to fight with UPS. Took 8 or 9 months to get some satisfaction. I have never shipped with them again.
 
i sold a fellow member a underhammer which arrived in two pieces thanks to ups. i recall it was a challenge to recover the cost of the replacement stock. even had the local agent on my side. about 25 phone calls later i had a check. :cursing:
 
I used to ship a few items on occasion, I just used USPS since it wasn't frequent enough to make a UPS account affordable. When I went to add insurance the USPS clerk pointed out, they do NOT pay for damage, only pay if they lose the package entirely.
 
I have been shipping & receiving parts in business for almost 40 years. I ship by UPS, Fed-X, or USPS every Day... and have for years....

The ONLY way you can protect your items is to make it Idiot Proof or Employee Proof. (Allot of time it's the same person). And I don't care if it is UPS, USPS, FED-X, or another company, it doesn't matter. IMHO, those people are paid to Move Freight.... & they don't give a rats a$$ what is in there or how delicate it is, they get paid to ship it.

I am NOT taking up for the company's shipping these items, I am just stating facts..... THEY DON"T CARE...... Accept it...... You cannot change it.... You have to deal with it.. or pay the consequences.

I would say 95% of the damages occur from the fault of the guy shipping it, because the KNOW it is subject to getting damaged & don't protect the product.

They KNOW it will be handled roughly.
They KNOW it could be broken.
They KNOW the people handling it don't care about it.
They KNOW it will be a real problem getting paid for it if it is damaged.

All Known well in advance, Yet they STILL toss it in a cardboard box, throw in some tissue paper & hope for the best ....... :shake:
A long box will most likely get bent.
A light box will most likely get crushed.
All boxes are likely to get damaged.

Even Test after Test from independent agencies have marked FRAGILE & GLASS all over on tiny, med, large, extra large boxes with test indicators in them, & almost every single one of them came back with results of them being dropped at least One Time during it's travel at a height of 6'.

I have had 2 rifles in the past 2 years sent to me that I Know were broken in the middle. As soon as I saw them I immediately refused them (did not even open them) & had them sent right back. I told the people shipping them not to send them in a cardboard box, but in a styrafoam packed wooden crate & even offered to send them my rifle crate, but they refused. Didn't want to spend the extra $25. to get the crate to them. BIG mistake...

If you don't have enough care to pack it properly so some uncaring employee doesn't break it, I sure don't care to work on it.

I don't like it..... But it is like it is...... :idunno:

The ONLY way to keep it from being damaged is to make it Damage Proof or Idiot Proof.

Long rifles & stocks have to be in a Aluminum, Hard Plastic, or Wooden crate packed in foam or styrafoam. Then encase that in cardboard & taped to H... & back. Yes, it is a PITA, but it works....

Now it is possible to run over a substantial crate & still break the rifle... And it is possible to toss it off a airplane & bust it up..... but it sure cuts the chances of it being damaged down about 95%.

Protect yourself & protect your items from the obvious problem. Your shipping company is not going to change their practices for You.

Keith Lisle
 
Keith...do you still insure the LRs packed in wooden crates as you describe? Just shipped a LR through USPS and the insurance was 2 and a 1/2 times more than the shipping charge.....Fred
 
Yes, I insure rifles for $100. more than I sold it for. If you file a claim on an item, they do not reimburse you for the insurance cost or the shipping cost, just $ for the replacement cost of the item.

Also I don't ship rifles with USPS cause the shipping insurance is too high. It normally cost about ? $55. - $65- to ship & insure a longrifle with UPS, depending on where it goes, and if in one box or two. Most buy my accessory kit & that is a 2nd box cost. Now if you ship from a shipping Store... it may cost more because the store is going to add in their charge for store markup.

I have had several things lost by USPS & they could not track them even tho I paid for the tracking.

One was a barrel I sent to PA. It made it to the Post Office in PA and they lost it from there. Took me 60 days to get my money back. By then the cost of the barrel had went up & I never compensated for that. (but that was my fault) Also they didn't reimburse me the shipping cost or the insurance cost, just the cost I insured it for. (my fault again for not compensating for those fees)

#2 was a book I sent to New Zealand. They sold me the tracking so I can track it. Then after it is gone for 3 weeks they tell me they cannot track things after they leave USA. Well, what good is the tracking then if they cannot track it ? 60 days later it still has not arrived, now they say they can track it to the coast & that is it... so they said.
Turns out it went to the coast & to a PO there & sat there....... then was returned to me 65 days later. Reason ? Wrong customs form. 3 part form & should have been 5 part form. Yet I filled out exactly what THEY told me to fill out. Also, the 3 parts is a Duplicate of the 5 part document, just 2 sheets less. Nobody in the postal service can run a copy machine apparently.... so it comes back for the new form 65 days later so I can make out a new form.
Plus all of this time, nobody can track it IN the USA as it never left here. AND.... they will not reimburse the initial shipping cost, I have to pay it all again just to get it NZ.
So this time I Air Freight it there & it cost more, and air freight to there took 10 days.. Slow plain I guess. Yet from NZ to here on regular service is less than 7 days..... go figure....

And Money Order issues are a whole dif story I won't get into as it is not relative to this post.

Personally, I prefer to use UPS to ship them. I have shipped thousands of items with them in the past 20 years I have owned this business. They have lost 2 items in those 20 years & damaged 3 incoming items. Of the 3 items damaged, two were improperly packed with no packing in them. The 3rd item was damaged from improper handling & UPS's fault. But all in all, I have had wonderful success shipping with them.

But....... I pack the livin H out of them, double box allot of things, use a tape dispenser with mylon in the tape, rifles in wooden crates packed in foam, I use packing paper, not newspaper, etc. I go to ALL ENDS to protect the product. My UPS guys say nobody packs things like I do.... Yes it is a Overkill.... but it works.... Nothing upsets a customer more than to get a damaged item. End result is YOU still have to furnish them a new item, whether you get paid for it of not. Yes it cost more & Yes it is more trouble to Overpack it... But it is worth it.

I want the good there Safe, Sound, and as described.... The customer may never appreciate what you may o thru to accomplish that. But they dang sure WILL remember it if it arrives damaged & they don't forget it either !!

End result..... A happy customer tells a few people. A disgruntled customer tells EVERYONE !!

Some like UPS, some like USPS, some like Fed-X. You have to decide who is best for You. Only FED-X I would use is the FED-X Air. The ground service is the old RPS guys here & they can't ship anything anywhere correctly (IMHO)

Keith Lisle

PS: No, Paul V. did not write this foe me.... :rotf: :rotf:
 
So how many times did you have to shake the cramp out of your hands before you were finished? :rotf: .
 
When you insure through UPS you are supposed to indicate what it is you are insuring. I am shipping a BP revolver soon and am wondering if I should say it is a "Muzzleloader" or perhaps a more non-descript term like "antique non GCA".

What do you fill in as the description?
 
Back
Top