Rust...

[Undertow]

A little over a week ago I took my SMR out for a shoot and cleaned it thoroughly. I probably ran 30 patches down it until all I was getting on the swabs was some really light color which I thought just to be some graphite per a video I seen on Black Powder TV. So anyways this morning I'm on here reading a few posts and decide to run some bear grease down the barrel and I come back with rust. Is this a major issue? How can I prevent this and get in front of it now? Included are pics of a couple patches.

 

[tenngun]

What did you oil initially with when done cleaning
I do a follow up the next day and re oil, some times a third session
Where do you live? The east is bad with humidity not so much in most of the west.

 

[Daryl Crawford]

Don't stress.
This isn't abnormal. Like @tenngun said, returning to a freshly cleaned weapon in a few days is a smart move. Nothing empirical here, but storing the rifle butt down may help in keeping moisture in the barrel. Not sure how you are storing the weapon.
Many will have opinions on what to wipe a barrel down with to avoid and limit this. Ballistol, olive oil mixed with bees wax have worked for me. Straight olive oil also coats well. Other options abound.
For today, run a few patches (oiled then a dry one) until you get clean patches, then run a patch dampened with your lube of choice. Store the weapon barrel down or horizontal with a slight barrel down slant.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Those that use petrol based oils in their black powder FIREARMS are going down the wrong path.

 

[IanH]

It flash rusts while you're cleaning it. What I've had to do to prevent this is to clean with a very light emulsion of water-soluble oil. Ballistol or soluble machine oil about one part to ten of water is enough to prevent it rusting while you're cleaning.

 

[centershot]

It looks like flash rust to me. If you're using hot water to clean with, stop! Use lukewarm or cold to clean and then a patch lightly covered with olive oil and beeswax mixture (that's my patch lube mix). Before shooting, run a patch or two wet with alcohol, then a dry patch.

 

[Scota@4570]

How can I prevent this and get in front of it now? Clean it well with water. Polish the bore with Flitz, semichrome or JB. Then coat it well with a proper preservative grease.

Any water containing cleaning solution is fine. Windex is everywhere and works well. Take your pick. Any oil is fine for short term preserving.

Olive and other veg oils will polymerize, just like linseed oil, and make a gummy mess over time.

For long term storage I would never use anything but a petroleum based preservative. My guns are valuable and I will not sacrifice them to "historical correctness". The one exception is lanolin, aka fluid film. For long term storage LPS-3, RIG, and such are best. This idea that petroleum oils and greases are no good for preserving and lubricating BP guns is pure bunk.

Heavy petroleum grease is not a good shooting lube.

I believe the idea got started by people who observed that long ago petroleum was not available. However, that does not make the greasy part of dinner left overs desirable for gun maintenance. It is however better than the alternative at the time, spit. Keep in mind most old original barrels are rotted out from rust.


And now another oil thread will go on for 20 pages.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

That's what I was wondering. Is it rust or dried polymerized oil that the bear grease softened up. Had that same thing happen more than once with more than one product.

Olive and other veg oils will polymerize, just like linseed oil, and make a gummy mess over time.

 

[hanshi]

It may not be all rust. It could have something to do with your lube of choice or even your rust protectant. It's possible for most any barrel coating to burn a bit leaving rust-like or even black residue sticking to the bore. After cleaning I check on the rifle a day or two later then a week or two after that. I also clean with cold tap water to keep "flash rust" at bay. Barricade or BreakFree CLP works as my bore protectant.

 

[Scota@4570]

That's what I was wondering. Is it rust or dried polymerized oil that the bear grease softened up. Had that same thing happen more than once with more than one product.

Could be. Rust feels gritty when running tight patches.

 

[LME]

Flash rust will happen sooner or later. It isn't to bad if you run a few patches down the barrel the next day and a few days later. i also check mine about two or three time a year just to be safe. I have a rifle that I have been using since the early eighties and I have had flash rust. That rifle is extremely accurate to this day and it has been shot a lot.

 

[NorthFork]

It may not be all rust. It could have something to do with your lube of choice or even your rust protectant. It's possible for most any barrel coating to burn a bit leaving rust-like or even black residue sticking to the bore. After cleaning I check on the rifle a day or two later then a week or two after that. I also clean with cold tap water to keep "flash rust" at bay. Barricade or BreakFree CLP works as my bore protectant.

This right here. Many oil or greases will oxidize and sometimes rapidly and look like rust. If there is ANY rust in your bore (even flash rust) you will feel the patch grab or be 'sticky' when swabbing the bore. If it feels smooth, there is NO rust.

 

[Sidney Smith]

Those that use petrol based oils in their black powder FIREARMS are going down the wrong path.

You can't be more wrong! I've used petroleum based solvents and oils in my muzzleloaders for over 30 years and I don't get rust, and have no issues whatsoever.

Where is your proof to the contrary?

 

[NorthFork]

Flash rust will happen sooner or later. It isn't to bad if you run a few patches down the barrel the next day and a few days later. i also check mine about two or three time a year just to be safe. I have a rifle that I have been using since the early eighties and I have had flash rust. That rifle is extremely accurate to this day and it has been shot a lot.

While any corrosion of ferrous steel is to be avoided at all costs inside the bore, flash rust if caught in time, is not the devil many folks make it out to be. Some of my rifles and smoothbore flash rust even in cold water. Others don't even in hot water. No rhyme or reason to it. But all are accurate.

 

[NorthFork]

You can't be more wrong! I've used petroleum based solvents and oils in my muzzleloaders for over 30 years and I don't get rust, and have no issues whatsoever.

Where is your proof to the contrary?

I 100% percent agree. I was taught 30++ years ago to clean with cool water and MAYBE a touch of soap. Plunging a patch up and down blowing water out of the touch hole or nipple threads. Then a quick plunging of HOT water to rinse and dry. The patch the barrel dry. Then liberally use WD-40 in the BULK 1 GALLON CANS, not the aerosol, to flood the bore and drive the water out. That's what WD-40's claim to fame is. A water disperser. Then patch dry and use a good petroleum based preservative oil (I use Brownells #2) to prevent rust.

When you want to shoot again, plug nipple/flash hole with tooth pick and pour a small amount of 90% isopropyl or denatured alcohol in to bore. Pour out after a few minutes. Pull toothpick and patch dry.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER a problem with rust. I was taught from a toddler in the 1970's to a young man in the early 1990's this by 60-90 year old MEN who NEVER gave up black powder. If it worked for them, it ought to work for you.

This silliness of petroleum oils tarring up bores is exactly that. Silly.

edit- Oh and as long as you soak and swab with alcohol, NO issues with hang fires or the like!

 

[BillyC]

Funny how we all seem to get to the same place eventually. I was nervous about using water to clean with so I would go back later in the day and run a patch or two to double check, then the next day still had to check. After having a ML for a few months it’s just my routine to run a patch through once a week if I’ve shot it or not, can’t be too careful and I just like holding it, shouldering it and looking down the barrel, trying to get my hold memorized and ingrained in my brain, then of course wiping it all down.

 

[NorthFork]

Funny how we all seem to get to the same place eventually. I was nervous about using water to clean with so I would go back later in the day and run a patch or two to double check, then the next day still had to check. After having a ML for a few months it’s just my routine to run a patch through once a week if I’ve shot it or not, can’t be too careful and I just like holding it, shouldering it and looking down the barrel, trying to get my hold memorized and ingrained in my brain, then of course wiping it all down.

Real BP and Pyrodex dissolve in water. Sometimes a dash of Dawn or Palmolive helps cut the excess crud (via surface tension). That's all that is needed. Use WD-40 is displace water, patch dry, then use your favorite rust preventing oil or grease. Can't be simpler.

 

[Undertow]

What did you oil initially with when done cleaning
I do a follow up the next day and re oil, some times a third session
Where do you live? The east is bad with humidity not so much in most of the west.

Bear Grease from Crazy Crow. I live in Michigan and the gun is stored in my nice and cool basement so humidity isn't an issue. I'm gonna order some Ballistol right now to use moving forward.

 

[Undertow]

It looks like flash rust to me. If you're using hot water to clean with, stop! Use lukewarm or cold to clean and then a patch lightly covered with olive oil and beeswax mixture (that's my patch lube mix). Before shooting, run a patch or two wet with alcohol, then a dry patch.

I may actually have used too hot of water when I cleaned it.

 

[kyron4]

Those that use petrol based oils in their black powder FIREARMS are going down the wrong path.

A light coat of CLP in the bore and never a problem. I just swab bore with 91% alcohol and dry prior to shooting.