Removing breech plug...barrel keeps spinning.

[Scota@4570]

TRS?? I did not catch that first time, that makes a difference. TRS expects you to notch the plug. You have to remove it. Locate the touch hole. Remove the plug. Drill the touch hole. Put the plug back in and mark the plug with the drill. Be very careful, a side load on a 1/16" bit will snap it off in a split second.

On my second TRS Baker I shortened the plug threads to minimize the notching foolishness. As they came to me the notch exposed threads in the barrel, which I do no like. Fouling trap. Adding a liner is not an option.

I always remove the plug and inlet the barrel and recoil surface. Then install the plug and finish. All inletting is best one one part at a time.

Be very carful with your TRS stock. Try to think several steps ahead. Figure out where the lock needs to be before you finish inletting the barrel. TRS stocks are pretty "sketchy". You can not trust the pre-inletting.

 

[FlinterNick]

TRS?? I did not catch that first time, that makes a difference. TRS expects you to notch the plug. You have to remove it. Locate the touch hole. Remove the plug. Drill the touch hole. Put the plug back in and mark the plug with the drill. Be very careful, a side load on a 1/16" bit will snap it off in a split second.

On my second TRS Baker I shortened the plug threads to minimize the notching foolishness. As they came to me the notch exposed threads in the barrel, which I do no like. Fouling trap. Adding a liner is not an option.

I always remove the plug and inlet the barrel and recoil surface. Then install the plug and finish. All inletting is best one one part at a time.

Be very carful with your TRS stock. Try to think several steps ahead. Figure out where the lock needs to be before you finish inletting the barrel. TRS stocks are pretty "sketchy". You can not trust the pre-inletting.

Yeap most TRS breech plugs are a little longer than they need to be, so you have to file a small notch in the face, very small notch. I round mine out so i can clean them easily.

 

[Mulebrain]

I use a regular vise with leather wrapped around the barrel

 

[SDSmlf]

A tapered, full-round barrel makes this job a challenge.

I have removed round tapered barrels from round actions on centerfire rifles. It just requires the right clamping, sometimes ‘custom’. Easy to make from scrap pieces of stuff. If you don’t have rosin powdered sugar will work.

 

[Mark E. Prickett]

I gave my wrench a wack with a hammer and it jolted it lose.

 

[Raz]

SOLVENT - Plug the barrel touch-hole and drip a 50-50 mix of acetone and Auto Transmission Fluid (ATF) to the breech plug threads, as work exponentially BETTER than Kroil, PB Blaster or any other penetrating fluid ... but they can help too. Try this for a few days prior to removal ... only need a little, no need to make a mess ...

JAWS - Add thick leather to the jaws and wrap the barrel in blue tape, with an aggressive metal paper side with the grit to the tape. Be AWARE of the barrel position and STOP if you think it rotates, to ensure you're not harming the barrel finish. Note that jaws with a tapered slot/groove would hold/grip more surface area and that is what you need.

VICE - That pattern maker's vice is not up to the task ... you're barely holding on maybe 1/16" of area on each side of the barrel and I highly doubt that Acme thread on that positioning vice is up to the clamping force, like you would get from a large metal-working vice.

OTHER - Sometimes heating the breech end warm/hot and immediately immersing into cold water can help break the seal, due to differing coefficients of expansion from the barrel to the plug.

TOOL - Get a longer wrench or add a cheater bar, you need a longer LEVER arm (leverage) ...

 

[Rob M.]

Wow !! Some of these answers ! The plug needs to come out . The plug should come out a few times during a build and if you are trying to build without ever removing the breech plug well .... Nuff said . As stated a couple times ,modern plugs are STUPID tight !! Good &%$ they are tight ! With a round barrel it just makes it worse unfortunately . Comfortably Numb and a couple other have good ideas , techniques so no need in repeating them . When putting the wrench on the plug to loosen , counter clock wise , make sure the turn is pushing the barrel down into the vice not up.out of it . Helps a bit but it'll still keep slipping until you can find a solution that works . Each barrel is different . Ive used lead I pounded flat then put the round barrel in the section of the machine vice that is made to hold round stock with the lead protecting the barrel . Ive used plywood , the most , in my vice even working on round barrels . All barrels I build with start round so ive unbreeched more than a few . A cheater of a pipe slipped over the handle of the wrench , going down of course , helps and even hitting the handle with a hammer does indeed help . If you hit the handle with the hammer , down , retighten vice , pop the handle again , down , retighten vice , pip the handle again .....and on and on .....watching the witness mark , you will see it slowly moving , in tightening . Best of luck bud . If no luck holler !

 

[GREENSWLDE]

My suggestion was for a Hook breach. If you have a plug direct into the tube, gut the slot tapered to match the tang. the drill a hole to match the one in the tang and fit a pin to match. This'll stop the wrench from sliding off. Use a SOFT FACE Mallet Not a hammer ..

 

[FlinterNick]

Wow !! Some of these answers ! The plug needs to come out . The plug should come out a few times during a build and if you are trying to build without ever removing the breech plug well .... Nuff said . As stated a couple times ,modern plugs are STUPID tight !! Good &%$ they are tight ! With a round barrel it just makes it worse unfortunately . Comfortably Numb and a couple other have good ideas , techniques so no need in repeating them . When putting the wrench on the plug to loosen , counter clock wise , make sure the turn is pushing the barrel down into the vice not up.out of it . Helps a bit but it'll still keep slipping until you can find a solution that works . Each barrel is different . Ive used lead I pounded flat then put the round barrel in the section of the machine vice that is made to hold round stock with the lead protecting the barrel . Ive used plywood , the most , in my vice even working on round barrels . All barrels I build with start round so ive unbreeched more than a few . A cheater of a pipe slipped over the handle of the wrench , going down of course , helps and even hitting the handle with a hammer does indeed help . If you hit the handle with the hammer , down , retighten vice , pop the handle again , down , retighten vice , pip the handle again .....and on and on .....watching the witness mark , you will see it slowly moving , in tightening . Best of luck bud . If no luck holler !

I woudln’t say it’s a MUST that the breech be removed, however i do agree an experience builder will remove the plug over and over until its fit to the barrel and breech area of the stock and vent hole operations.

For the novice builder with little to no experience, removing a fitted plug is not required (while not advisable), a touch hole can be positioned ahead of the breech, with some tolerance as to its location over the pan, it wont be perfect.

I do agree with you that learning how to remove the breech plug is essential to becoming an expert builder.

My few first kit builds i had limited tools and could not remove a breech plug. With the tang preinlet, i traced a copy of the tang on paper and then undersized it by 10% and inlet the remaining successfully with some minor issue gaps that. We’re less than 1/2 a mm, the varnishing process filled in those gaps with no visible issues.

As for the touch hole i measured the distance from the center of the pan to the face of the breech, with the vent hole centered, it hit just the end of the beech and i drilled into it. After that i placed a dowel in the beech coated in Emory wax and turned it with a drill until i was satisfied it was nice and smooth.

It can be accomplished without removing the plug, being able to remove the plug now, i would always suggest removing it.

The problem really is where a beginner wrecks the breech from messing around with it without seeking REAL advice or assistance, FORUM advice is not advice.

 

[Rob M.]

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I woudln’t say it’s a MUST that the breech be removed, however i do agree an experience builder will remove the plug over and over until its fit to the barrel and breech area of the stock and vent hole operations.

For the novice builder with little to no experience, removing a fitted plug is not required (while not advisable), a touch hole can be positioned ahead of the breech, with some tolerance as to its location over the pan, it wont be perfect.

I do agree with you that learning how to remove the breech plug is essential to becoming an expert builder.

My few first kit builds i had limited tools and could not remove a breech plug. With the tang preinlet, i traced a copy of the tang on paper and then undersized it by 10% and inlet the remaining successfully with some minor issue gaps that. We’re less than 1/2 a mm, the varnishing process filled in those gaps with no visible issues.

As for the touch hole i measured the distance from the center of the pan to the face of the breech, with the vent hole centered, it hit just the end of the beech and i drilled into it. After that i placed a dowel in the beech coated in Emory wax and turned it with a drill until i was satisfied it was nice and smooth.

It can be accomplished without removing the plug, being able to remove the plug now, i would always suggest removing it.

The problem really is where a beginner wrecks the breech from messing around with it without seeking REAL advice or assistance, FORUM advice is not advice.

No , its a must .It must be removed for a few things during the build . Can a gun be built without removing the breech plug ? Sure , but that would be pretty dumb . I love hearing folks on here having troubles and the answer is , of course , remove the breech plug and drive the issue out , duh, but they won't or can't or ...whatever . To each their own but dont cry about it later .

 

[mikesto44]

One little suggestion is to make SURE your not clamping the barrel near the breech plug. The tightening pressure on the plug will stop the removal for sure...
The acetone and transmission fluid 50/50 combo works the best.

 

[MSW]

Any tips to get a barrel to stay put from turning when I'm trying to remove the breech plug? TRS said I'd be able to remove it with an adjustable wrench...but its in there good! When looking down at the plug, removal is counter clockwise...correct?

the pattern makers vice is your problem - you need a standard bench vise ... what you have is an attempt to do metal working with woodworking tools.
get the biggest standard vise that you can afford ... this one is close to what i use
https://www.amazon.com/eavyduty-For...&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584001418706676&th=1notice that it turns, and that there are two tightening levers - one on either side: YOU WANT THIS FEATURE ... the 4 inch is cheaper, but i'd go with the 5 inch.

Also, make sure that the vise you get is very securely affixed to the bench - i've seen people spend a boatload of money on a fancy expensive vise and then try to put it on their bench with wood screws, because that's what happened to be at hand ... get the biggest bolts that will fit into the slots or holes and use them all ... use washers, too ... tighten that guy up really hard, wait a day and reef on it again

more thoughts - don't fall for the idea that you can put the vise on a piece of 3/4 inch plywood and bolt that to the bench. this idea looks great in the magazine, but doesn't work at all well in the real world ... don't ask me how i know ...

once i had a vise on my bench, i couldn't figure what i'd done without it.

best of luck, and Make Good Smoke

 

[ZUG]

Try this - First get a heavy duty vise - second get two blocks of a hard wood (about 6" long and 2" thick) and square them up so that they mate flush with each other - third use double sided tape the kind used in woodworking and place some on the face of one of the blocks then press the other block onto the tape to form one block - forth drill a hole through the center of the length of the taped together block a bit smaller than your barrels diameter NEAR the breach plug but away from where the end of the breach plug's end would be - fifth separate the two wood blocks and file/sand the barrels contour into the wood block halves - sixth clean the barrel with a good degreaser and apply the double sided tape to the barrel where you will be attaching the wood block halves - seven place the blocks to the barrel and place it in that heavy duty vise that you just purchased that is SECURLY attached to your HEAVY DUTY workbench - eight get that BIG adjustable wrench that you have put away somewhere and securely put it on the breach plugs tang and now give the wrench a BIG wack with that big heavy hammer that your father-in-law gave you because he had no use for it. That breach plug should SCREAM mercy and start to unscrew. You can NOW have that cold beer that you have been dying to have for the last three days

 

[FlinterNick]

Try this - First get a heavy duty vise - second get two blocks of a hard wood (about 6" long and 2" thick) and square them up so that they mate flush with each other - third use double sided tape the kind used in woodworking and place some on the face of one of the blocks then press the other block onto the tape to form one block - forth drill a hole through the center of the length of the taped together block a bit smaller than your barrels diameter NEAR the breach plug but away from where the end of the breach plug's end would be - fifth separate the two wood blocks and file/sand the barrels contour into the wood block halves - sixth clean the barrel with a good degreaser and apply the double sided tape to the barrel where you will be attaching the wood block halves - seven place the blocks to the barrel and place it in that heavy duty vise that you just purchased that is SECURLY attached to your HEAVY DUTY workbench - eight get that BIG adjustable wrench that you have put away somewhere and securely put it on the breach plugs tang and now give the wrench a BIG wack with that big heavy hammer that your father-in-law gave you because he had no use for it. That breach plug should SCREAM mercy and start to unscrew. You can NOW have that cold beer that you have been dying to have for the last three days

I would not bang the breech plug with anything, even if you’re hitting in the wrench.

Breechplugs made by The Rifle Shoppe Hoyt or even rice or Colerain, or made of a very mild steel that can bend rather easily.

All you need to do is get heavy duty vice Wilton, or any good one you find on Amazon 6 inch to 8 inch and get some aluminum shims.

Tighten down the barrel in the Shims across the flats, get a large crescent wrench and start turning .

You don’t need, woood, you don’t need Rozen you don’t need glue no duct tape. Just a little elbow grease will do fine

I have removed 270 year old breechplugs this way.

 

[ZUG]

Well here is my way of removing the breach plug on an India made Brown Bess that I described above in my earlier post. I just removed it and in less than 5 minutes after I had the wood blocks made. You will see all of the tools I used in the pictures. We all have our own way of doing things.

 

[SDSmlf]

First get a heavy duty vise - second get two blocks of a hard wood (about 6" long and 2" thick) and square them up so that they mate flush with each other - third use double sided tape the kind used in woodworking and place some on the face of one of the blocks then press the other block onto the tape to form one block - forth drill a hole through the center of the length of the taped together block a bit smaller than your barrels diameter NEAR the breach plug but away from where the end of the breach plug's end would be - fifth separate the two wood blocks and file/sand the barrels contour into the wood block halves

You can start with two blocks of wood and I’m sure method works, however, I have always had success starting with a single block of wood. Just needs to be solid piece of hardwood, maybe from a pallet, nothing special. Drill a hole about the diameter of the barrel where you want to grip it through the block of wood. Mark the block (to keep track of how they go together) and saw lengthwise through the hole. The saw kerf will create the gap between the blocks to allow you to grip barrel. Here is a photograph I posted earlier in this thread showing that type of wooden clamp.

For what it is worth, I would invest in a good vise (I prefer Wilton), as the cheaper ones are prone to fail. My brother in law was torquing on something in a HF vice and its casting broke….. and when broken piece(s) came to a stop on his garage floor, they took a chunk out of the concrete along with other collateral damage. Just missed his feet.

 

[ZUG]

The wood block that I used above is just a two by four and it worked very well. I have 3 vises and that blue one is an inexpensive 5.5" Yost I bought the other day for less than $90 and it is good enough. My other two vises are 4" and a 4-1/2" made by Columbia. I don't need a Wilton vise for what I do. I am a retired aerospace mechanical engineer with 44 -1/2 years of experience so I know my manure. Thanks for your info anyway.

 

[necchi]

The interesting thing is,, that @bjarard ,, the original poster,, has never come back to this thread.

 

[Scota@4570]

" and apply the double sided tape to the barrel where you will be attaching the wood block halves"

Nope, any tape I ever tried was useless. The adhesive becomes a gooie lubricant at the pressures involved. Rosin is the old standby, it works great. IF you need to hold a barrel and not disturb the finish the answer is rosin. On a metal contoured wrench, use business card stock and rosin. On your contoured wood block, again use rosin.

I you have any trouble getting rosin also try music stores. Violinists use it. IF that fails electronics fabrication suppliers have rosin dissolved in solvent. They sell it as flux. IT comes in a small bottle with an handy brush.

How to properly and safely remove a breech plug would make a good sticky.

 

[FlinterNick]

The wood block that I used above is just a two by four and it worked very well. I have 3 vises and that blue one is an inexpensive 5.5" Yost I bought the other day for less than $90 and it is good enough. My other two vises are 4" and a 4-1/2" made by Columbia. I don't need a Wilton vise for what I do. I am a retired aerospace mechanical engineer with 44 -1/2 years of experience so I know my manure. Thanks for your info anyway.

Aluminum shim works better and you can use the same shim for every barrel

Here’s a video of me unbreeching a 30 year old navy arms barrel with aluminum shim in a 7” vise and crescent wrench.


https://cdn2.imagearchive.com/muzzl...8/178079-8e64cea77b736012391c57c5b9758487.mov