Powder measure spouts

[270WSMANIC]

Talking about the screw on measure tubes ( different lengths and diamaters for different charges that go on brass flasks). I have several the last one I bought I think was suspose to be 70gr. Ok when I fill it then dump into my adjustable measure I get about 63gr. This is with fff-777. Since this is measureing by volume shouldnt matter if 777,black,pyrodex,or whetever.
Its possible the spout is suspose to be 80gr but I can't believe it would be that far off. Anyone else checked to see what there spout is actually throwing?

 

[Rifleman1776]

Not uncommon to find this situation.
The tube might just be wrong. Or how you hold your finger over the end can affect the actually measure a little bit.
Type and granulation of the powder will make a little difference.
I suggest you go to an oversize tube then, with trial and error, cut it back to where you want it.
Wise to transfer rather than pour directly in the barrel. :applause:

 

[rafterob]

It has been well documented here that different makers of powder measures have a significant variation of actual measurement compared to the index numbers on the devices. So what you do when working up a load is to use one measure and then use that as a volume reference in other measures (disregarding the numbers). I recently had the same issue as you. Installed a 70 grain spout on a brass flask and it was off significantly from my powder measure. So I poured a few measures into the spout to get a good idea of where it leveled off at and marked that line. I then filed the flask spout down to the volume my measure throws.My guess is it was off about 4 grains.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I never load directly from the flask and always dump into a seperate measure, so I really don't know.

 

[longcruise]

I have several the last one I bought I think was suspose to be 70gr. Ok when I fill it then dump into my adjustable measure I get about 63gr. This is with fff-777. Since this is measureing by volume shouldnt matter if 777,black,pyrodex,or whetever.
Its possible the spout is suspose to be 80gr but I can't believe it would be that far off. Anyone else checked to see what there spout is actually throwing?

You will always get erroneous readings when comparing measures by filling one and dumping into another for comparison. It just don;t work! :shocked2:

To get a true comparison of two measures you must weigh the charge thrown by each one. The comparison is only valid if you compare powder poured from the same container. No 2f to 3f or pyro to goex or goex to other brand or 777 to BP. But, as long as you compare the exact same powder, then equal weight means equal volume and vice versa.

Same thing holds true when you are making a new powder measure to match an old one. It won't be the same if you pour the powder from the old one into the new one and size the new one to fit the powder as poured in. You gotta weigh a couple of the charges from the old measure and then make the new one to pour the same weight of the same powder from the same container.

Pouring your powder down the barrel from the measure screwed to your flask is a dangerous practice. You might do it all your life without a problem, but if you have that one rare case of a hot spark in the barrel setting off the powder as you pour it, the end result is your flask becomes a grenade going off in your hand.! :shocked2:

 

[BrownBear]

Talking about the screw on measure tubes ( different lengths and diamaters for different charges that go on brass flasks). I have several the last one I bought I think was suspose to be 70gr. Ok when I fill it then dump into my adjustable measure I get about 63gr. This is with fff-777. Since this is measureing by volume shouldnt matter if 777,black,pyrodex,or whetever.
Its possible the spout is suspose to be 80gr but I can't believe it would be that far off. Anyone else checked to see what there spout is actually throwing?

Here's a test for you: After you've poured from one measure to another for the check, pour the charge back into the first measure. Based on my own experiences, I'm betting you see it doesn't come up as high as the first time.

I run into this when making my own powder measures and using a Cash adjustable to check and regulate. Seems to be some order of differential settling or packing going an as you go from one measure to another.

If that's not the same as what you're experiencing, I dunno. :idunno:

 

[270WSMANIC]

I'll try that. Makes sense that it might settle a bit.

 

[Zonie]

I wish folks would just leave their weight scales sitting on their smokeless powder bench and quit fussing with them and their powder weights.

NONE of the synthetic black powders WEIGH as much as real black powder does.

That is why folks should NEVER weigh things like Pyrodex, 777, Schmedlys Brown or whatever synthetic powder you want to name.

OK, OK. For you target shooters who are worried about being able to pick a tick off of your dogs rump at 100 yards, go ahead and measure your powder but I'm betting your using real black powder anyway so it should weigh pretty close to what the powder measure says it will throw.

Getting back to the synthetic powders weight, one of Pyrodex's big advantages (they claim) is that it only weighs about 2/3 as much for a given volume of powder so you get more shots per pound.

The thing of it is, the synthetic powders weigh less per cubic inch than real black powder but hey contain just as much energy (or a little more) per cubic inch (or cc if you like those metric sizes) as an equal load of real black powder.

They ALL were meant to be measured by VOLUME ONLY.

 

[Bill Hall]

First off, read what Zonie posted thoroughly. Good info there, so I'll try not go over any of it again.

Secondly, there just isn't any common black powder weighing standard. Like previously mentioned, different brands and granulations will weigh differently for equal volume, and there is a big difference between real black powder and the substitutes. You never know what powder measure makers used to discern their measurements. And I also believe some powder measure manufacturers don't put a whole lotta effort in accuracy. It's pretty common for one maker's measure to throw a different volume compared to another makers measure, with the same powder.

Thirdly, BAD idea to use a flask measure to dump powder directly into the bore. There's always a very slight chance, however small, that a glowing spark could still be living in the breech after shooting. Dumping straight from the flask would turn that flask into a bomb in your hand if the powder were to ignite during loading, whereas a separate measure would just go "poof". I loaded straight from the flask for many years, until I heard stories of mangled hands. If you're not already doing it, best to dump the powder from the flask measure into another tube or container, then dump into the bore. Bill

 

[270WSMANIC]

Hate to admit it but yes I have always dumped direct from the flask. I also have another bad habit of blowing down the barrel first. But not until I have mentally doublechecked my self,(did the gun go boom?).This however is not taking into account Murphys Law. In other words forget that the gun did not go boom and that I was about to pull the nipple to put few granuals of powder in and instead start to reload and blow down the barrel in which case the load could possible ignite at any moment.
Im thinking the best way would be wait at least 30 seconds to a minute after gun fires befor dumping powder and dump it first into a empty film canaster or something similar.
Here is another thought I have had while quickly reloading while hunting. Here is the drill you get a shot at a deer you take the shot and as usually happens the deer runs out of sight. At this point you dont know if your shot was true and the deer is dead or will need a finisher. You set the gun against a tree and grab your speedloader. Maybe only 15 sec or so since the shot and you are about to quickly dunp powder from a speedloader with a ball in the other end of speedloader which you will quickly ram down the barrel. Maybe in this case it would be better to blow down the barrel befor loading. What think y'all.

 

[Rat Trapper]

There is nothing wrong with weighting subs! You just have to go about it properly. ie, you pour it into your measure and then on to a scale and get an average. From that point on you can weight it using the average you got when using your powder measure. Subs do not weight the same as black powder and you must get an average first.

I also weight my small caliber loads as well when using Goex 3F. Being off a grain or two is a lot when shooting those small calibers.

 

[Zonie]

My point was: Do not expect the weight of any substitute black powder to weigh the same as an equal volume of real black powder weighs.

The OP was mentioning that his 777 powder weighed less than he expected when he was using a "70 grain" powder measure.

If people want to weigh out their gunpowder on a scale that's OK with me.

But if someone is weighing a powder like Pyrodex and he pours enough of it on his scale to actually weigh 100 grains, he is looking at a 130 grain equivalent (power wise) powder load.

 

[270WSMANIC]

No I din't say I weighed the charge at all, I dumped it into a marked adjustable powder measure and it came out to 63gr by volume and was suprised that it varied that much. I have no idea what the actual weight was. I may check just for fun though.