pedersoli lock problems

[ffffg]

this, not new, 12 guage pedersoli mortimer has been an excelent shotgun for me, harvesting many ducks and a few pheasant..it is not without some serious problems (which i pesonally have found to be a pedersoli standard). i had it jug choked (extra full) about in the mid 90s by a real pro and it usually either misses or really nails the bird and have decided to go back to it.. i went to a chambers smoothbore in its absence years ago and have been in awe of the fine chambers large virginia and , roundface locks.. ive decided the full choke is best for me waterfoweling. this lock on the pedersoli is rife with small problems. trigger and creep are great, but the small lock is a rock crusher which i can live with or have fixed without great difficulty.... this feature has lead to the problem of the screw that holds the small flint is gauled or otherwise the screw turning quite hard.. probably due to inadequate hardenting,or being a rock crusher having to tighten it too much.. the last time out i lost two flints.., unless i tightened the screw after each fireing for 5 shots or so it would fly out of the jaws.. at this point it is very tight and i dont know how long it will hold up.. i have to use a bar such as an allen wrench in a hole in the screw head just to loosen it even when with no flint and not under pressure.. so the threads are probably is slowly being ruined.. the question is, can i have the threads redone larger, have it hardened and go to a larger screw and have a screw made to fix this, or weld the hole and retapped?... i would like to have this lock totaly rebuilt.. it just really is too small for dependibility that i am used to, but if fixed properly it will may be fine... what are your suggestions and feelings about these problems, and small locks on hardworking shotguns??? dave

 

[Mike Brooks]

You might try getting a replacement screw and cock....I'm not sure if that's even possible with Italian guns.
Small locks on hardworking shotguns are fine. L&R's littl manton locks keep on chugging along with out a hitch after a break in period where everything that is going to fail breaks and is replaced.....
Those Chambers Virginia locks will really spoil a guy won't they? :haha:
Maybe you ought to get a new gun made around a virginia lock and get the barrel jug chocked like the old spagetti gun an retire it or sell it off?

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

My feeling is that Pedersoli is a fine product, and you should have no trouble getting replacement parts for your lock. What are you useing for a pad around your flint that you have to tighten it down so hard? Anyway, I think Beauchamp and Sons in Cape Girardeu, Missouri should be able to fix you up.
Good luck!
Gene

 

[J.D.]

In my experience, Petersoli's locks leave a lot to be desired. You may replace the old screw, but there is no guarantee that the new one will be any better.

Try a washer placed between the top jaw and the screw.

It sounds like the threaded shank of screw is a little short, and the washer will give a little clearance for the threads.

Also, check if the bottom of the screw is making contact with the neck of the cock. Removing a thread, or two, from the bottom of the screw may solve the problem.


Another thought. In addition to using the washer, try lead to hold your flints. Cut from a larger piece of lead than necessary and cut a coupla tabs to bend up over the flint, and a coupla more tabs to bend down over the bottom jaw.

J.D.

 

[ffffg]

i use leather around the flint, ill check clearances. thanks.. "and you should have no trouble getting replacement parts for your lock" if you would have said "your expereince" and not "your feelings" you would understand the real story about pedersoli.. i can buy a new lock if im lucky(no parts available beauchamps words not mine), they were 200 dollars eight years ago.. but no guarantees about fit or size or quality.. the fact is after the warranty is over, pedersoli doesnt want to help. i was dealing with beauchamp a decade or more ago,, pay with a credit card or its yours... three nipples for my 10 guage and only one would hold a cap.. he told me no returns, use some fingernail polish.. called many times to thier repair station in texas and they fianlly mailed a letter.. the reply said sorry, after the warranty there is nothing they can do.. .. MIke Brooks has the best answere, but im trying to save this gun as its balance and weight follows the mortimer and it is a good field caliber and balance and light.... but the heart of a flint is the lock, and it has some serious problems.. dave

 

[ffffg]

i took a closer look at the lock, it appears that the top jaw is bending up, making the jaws not closing far enought to hold the flint, and more opening in the front than the back.. ill have to have a local smith straiten it and harden it.. ill try some thicker leather first, then some lead if that doesnt work for this season.. thanks..dave ................................................. the thicker piece of leather seems to be working well for the time being i appreciate the help.. :bow: dave

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

Thanks for posting about Beauchamp. I have had four Pedersoli guns, and never had a problem with any of them. Sorry to hear that their main importer treats people that way.
Good luck!

 

[Birddog6]

Dave: Have him bend it a lil past flat so the tip of the jaw is a lil closer than back at the screw, then harden it. This will make it hold the flint in better than push it out. You may also have him run a tap down the hole the jaw screw goes in & possibly clean the threads up a little. (May be metric)
Also sometimes the back of the top jaw is too snug, thus putting a bind on the screw, and it makes the screw real hard to turn or the top of the jaw doesn't want to move & let the flint go. Just grind a smiggen off the back of that piece & it will take the pressure off the screw.
Pay close attention to the flints & insure they have a flat top. If not take a Mizzy wheel & grind them flat & this will give you more surface area to grip & also help keep the flint flat. :thumbsup:

 

[J.D.]

I'm not surprised at the lack of availability of repair parts from any foreign manufacturer.

Petersoli's guns are generally good value, but their flint locks are sloppy, as are many of their caplocks.

Not to mention that what few spare parts that are available my not be a drop in fit, nor are those parts necessarily of good quality.

Bob Roller rebuilds many Petersoli caplocks for the folks who shoot long range ML matches, and I have talked to several folks who are looking for someone to rebuild the locks on their Italian Bess.

In fact, I am in the process of rebuilding the lock on my own bess. I didn't realize how sloppy that lock was until recently.

This lock is so sloppy that the tumbler axle hole in the bridle is .032 larger than the axle. In addition, that hole was drilled at about a 10 degree angle from perpendicular to the face of the bridle. The old hole was filled and redrilled and bridle hardened.

The tumbler hole in the plate is only...only .010, oversize, and I'm not confident enough to fill and redrill that hole in the correct location. I suppose I could properly locate that hole by making a template, but I gotta think on that some.

The screw hole in the frizzen is waaaayyyy oversize, but I don't have a lathe to turn a bushing. And since the Petersoli bess is well known for the thin case on their frizzens, and I do have the equipment, a shoe of high carbon steel will be brazed on the frizzen to drastically improve the number and intensity of the sparks. Not to mention the durability and longevity of the frizzen.

A new, forged mainspring will round out this rebuild...as soon as the learning curve flattens out. :winking:

And, when I have time to experiment and flatten the learning curve for case hardening, the entire lock plate, screws and all, will be case hardened.

Ain't gunsmithing fun? I gotta be :youcrazy:

J.D.

 

[ffffg]

ouch, im hoping this lock doesnt need half of that. but im willing to have done what is needed.. my other option would be a chambers 10,11,12 guage, but they are alot longer and somewhat heavier, and alot more considering it wwould need a jug choke also.... good blind or boat gun, but not as good as this mortimer for field.. it has plenty of wack with the full choke and it points great.. just need to keep working on it and fixing the problems as they arise.. i guess that is the problem with a cheap lock. you dont know what the heck is going to be the problem next year, in addition to the ones you already have.. but fixing it should be quite abit less than a whole new gun(i hope) thanks.. dave..

 

[J.D.]

I've been shooting this gun for 20 years, or more, but most of the problems don't appear to be from wear. other than galling due to the tumbler axles being off center.

This lock has always been slow, reliable but slow, now I know why.

This rebuild should correct the sloppy fits of all of the internal parts and thin case on the frizzen, so this gun should be servicable and more reliable for years to come.

IMHO, it would be a good idea to take your lock apart and check the fits and clearances, not to mention checking that the tumbler rides square to the lock plate.

An inspection and correction of any problems now would prevent worse problems later on.
J.D.