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Knife and Hawk question

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Bradg

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Been doing some research but I'm not getting much info. I'm looking for information on what knives and tomahawks were the most common among the hunters and explorers venturing into the Appalachian mountains around the 1770's.

I would assume the knives to be of the common trade variety, but what of the hawks? I see mention of pipe hawks but wouldn't a regular tomahawk be more commonly found.
 
Check out Track of the Wolfs British Army issue copy. It a very good starting point
 
Thanks, I was also looking for some books on the subject if anyone has any suggestions.
 
First off, I am certainly not an expert or as knowledgeable as some folks are on this forum about that period for tomahawks and belt axes. So I am therefore a bit leery to recommend a website. Perhaps more knowledgeable memebers can comment on the following website? It has some information on early belt axes, etc.
http://www.furtradetomahawks.com/

Gus
 
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Neumann's "Collectors Encyclopedia of the American Revolution" has been pretty helpful for me. The descriptions in primary documentation are somewhat vague, but they refer to what's called "poll axes" being preferred. (I'm referring to JFD Smyth's book, "A Tour of the United States of America" These have a flat on the back to use as a hammer. The interpretations thereof range pretty widely.

Smyth's book is on archive.org.

Also, like Gus, I'm no expert. And I apologize for recommending a vendor and specific item. I believe my meds had kicked in lol
 
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Pipe tomahawks were popular trade items, and the natives choices were often based on what they thought of as tradition and personal prestige. If an important chief had a pipe tomahawk, having a pipe tomahawk helped make the individual native feel like an important chief, and they would often put that above utility. It certainly makes more sense, from the utilitarian standpoint to carry a fragile pipe separate from a tool, and not to have a hole drilled the length of the already too thin handle of an axe that was needed for camp chores.

European hunters were much more utilitarian, and would be more likely to carry either a pole axe or a spike axe, depending on whether they wanted a hammering end or a digging end on the side away from the cutting end; or even a double bitted one, so one side could always be kept sharp. Settlers who also hunted would be likely to carry something like a belt axe or shingling hatchet, that was designed for use around the homestead.

The now popular single bit throwing tomahawk style with no pole, spike, or pipe end, would have been the cheapest hatchet to make at the time, as it would have taken less iron and less work. They are also a bit lighter to carry. They are also about worthless for driving a tent or snare peg, and digging with one would make it useless for cutting without a good sharpening.

As far as what type was the most common, I think there were a lot of choices and people chose the one that felt right to them. They were all common types.
 
Guys thanks for the info,with the Internet at my fingertips it's still hard to find the info I'm looking for but you all are a great wealth of information, I really appreciate the help.
And keep it coming.
 
Sons of a Trackless Forest by Mark Baker is probably by far the best resource, IF you can find a copy to read, let alone find one for sale.

In it you will find lists of material items used by hunters, lists of stuff for long-hunt companies, AND numerous lists of items shipped to George Morgan's Kaskaskia trading post in the 1760's.

Your question was for 1770..., yet the stuff that is bought by the hunters, and for listed for sale at the trading post, as well as what was sent for Morgan's personal use, was shipped there from Philadelphia. The stuff that was bought by the long-hunt companies was also purchased in the East..., so this gives you an indication of what may have been available for hunters in the 1770's.

I, for one, was astounded at the amount, and huge variety of material goods available at the trading post. YES, it's more than just knives and 'Hawks, so goes beyond your question, but you never know when in the future you may be wondering about another item of gear?

(The 'Hawks were probably smaller than the British Infantry Pattern hatchet of the period. btw :wink: )

LD
 
Thanks, I'm calling my library to see if they can find a copy. And yes I'm very interested in the other items available to them but the knives and tomahawks seemed like a good place to start with, thank you again.
 
crazy crow has a nice one called a French axe on sale,this isn't the crazy looking Franco head this is a polled hatchet that would be an all around good hand axe lighter than the brit infantry
 
This has some: http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=27518

If you go down four images you'll see Issac Shelby, one of the main figures at King's Mountain and a definite "Over the Mountain Boy". I think these type hatchets were what their owners called "Hatchets" and were very common. The "Squaw Ax" that gets thrown at modern Rondys- Valley Forge had one. Valley forge also has one similar to Issac Shelby.
 
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Loyalist Dave said:
Sons of a Trackless Forest by Mark Baker is probably by far the best resource, IF you can find a copy to read, let alone find one for sale.

As much as I've heard this book referenced and discussed positively, you gotta wonder why he doesn't republish it?
 
A smaller belt axe, and a scalper/ slicing knife.

Pipe hawks were not designed for utility work. Native Arizonan laid it out nicely. I purchased a hawk from TOW, they call it an Iroquois hawk. While I've never seen any real historical documentation of it existing the bit style certainly was around during the period. While I'm happy with mine, it takes a good amount of finish work. The head is cast, not heat treated and for hard use will require it.

I hardened and tempered mine, did a little more file work, profiled the edge and cleaned up the lines left from casting. It's proven to be a good reliable companion.

I also have reworked an old hickory slicing knife as my main blade. Out of the box again it'll require work. I have removed the ugly stampings on the blade, stripped the finish and applied my own along with new scales. Razor sharp!
 
Well, he published it under "Baker's Trace Publishing" in hardback, which means he had to pay for the printing and binding and then take orders and ship it. :shocked2:

Mr. Baker if he does an "on demand publisher", then he'd have to drop at least $500, just for the book to be set-up.

Now a 225 page book will retail for $20.... Baker's book is 992 pages so I'm betting it would retail at between $80 -$100 a copy, IF he can convince them to do such a large book as a paper-back.

I think his best bet would be e-publishing only, with the book costing about $25.00.

He's a high school teacher so I wonder if there are some costs that we don't see that are stopping him.

LD
 
Having self published before, I can second that, LD. It's not easy. The print on demand companies are getting better, but with almost a thousand pages the cost and formatting time are up there.
 
I really really HOPE he does it in an electronic, CD format, because that will allow it to be searched, so that when in a hurry for a reference one can find it. Yes the older, printed index form of quick reference is a useful tool, WHEN it's done well. I still would prefer the speed of the electronic format...I'm spoiled by modern computer technology I guess.

:idunno:

I wouldn't mind having it on a CD even if it cost $25 a copy.

:grin:


LD
 
Does anyone have any suggestions for a useful book that is still in print and I don't have to refinance my home for?
 
SgtErv said:
Neumann's "Collectors Encyclopedia of the American Revolution" has been pretty helpful for me.

Neumann's book is pretty good "The Frontier Rifleman" by Richard Lacrosse is good too, with a grain of salt, has measurements and such
 
Does anyone have any suggestions for a useful book that is still in print and I don't have to refinance my home for?

Try pages 34-37 of The Revolutionary Soldier 1775 - 1783 which will give you good illustrations of the making of the basic (and probably the most common) 'hawk, as well as fixed blade and folding knives.

The Longhunter's Sketchbook has some good illustrations of 'hawks and blade shapes.

The first book above has good illustrations but doesn't give you much in the way of historic sources to back up their illustrations, and the second book does (iirc) reference some of the sources where the blade shapes originate. Unimportant if you are looking for a quick and simple guide to basic shapes.

LD
 
Lots of good suggestions. Most of us here are indivdualists and want to do our own 'thang'. But, reality is we usually drift to what is availible and what our budgets allow. For many, that means getting a hawk style that is made by H&B forge and some others. You will be spot on with 'hc' and the quality can't be beat.
 
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