Help improving my group

[LME]

Most guys would give their right *** for a 1-inch 5 shot group at 25 yards using a muzzleloader with iron sights.

A lot of guys couldn't hold a 1-inch 5 shot group with a modern rifle and a scope.

Have you considered bolting the rifle to the shooting bench?

That would cut back on movement considerably.

I agree with your statement! I think we all like to talk about out tight groups and leave out our bad ones? People starting out assume by listening to all the people shooting these fantastic groups that it is the norm which we all know is not a fact. If one offers advice and it doesn't fit with the majority of people it is cast aside. I see people that are excellent shooters but some people just don't get it and continue looking for a reason their groups are so bad when they arn't..

 

[ETipp]

I agree with your statement! I think we all like to talk about out tight groups and leave out our bad ones? People starting out assume by listening to all the people shooting these fantastic groups that it is the norm which we all know is not a fact. If one offers advice and it doesn't fit with the majority of people it is cast aside. I see people that are excellent shooters but some people just don't get it and continue looking for a reason their groups are so bad when they arn't..

An average 1" group is not difficult to obtain with any rifle. In fact, if I had a rifle that was not capable of shooting an average 1" group from only 25 yards, it would be finding a new home.

Not talking about the human factor, rather the rifle itself.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Indeed, different rifles like different loadings. A 1" group from 25 yards is not difficult to achieve.

Salty, no disrespect intended whatsoever. And perhaps your particular vision dictates differently. And by all means, whatever you want to do is up to you.

However, IMO a 6"Oclock hold is not needed whatsoever, especially while hunting with a .32 caliber ML. Indeed, a squirrels head is a small target, but you can still see it with a normal center target aim.

Even after a fair amount of research and some NRA input this, as well as with what some contend, I cannot understand why anyone would choose to use a 6 O'clock hold while hunting. We don't use it with a scattergun. We don't use it with a scoped rifle. We don't use it with handguns, we don't even use it with compound bows.

With that said, I have given you, as well as others, the facts on ***"aim small, miss small"*** with a .32 caliber ML. I have tested this to its entirety with my Crockett Squirrel Rifle with different targets and different size aiming dots, as well as on over 43 squirrels this season thus far. If you can see the front bead, you can put it on center mass. And in terms of target shooting, a smaller aiming dot is key.

But its your party and everyone to their own thing I reckon.

Stick with and Good luck. I'm sure you will be able to find the optimum loading.

Fair enough. Thanks for your advice!

 

[LME]

An average 1" group is not difficult to obtain with any rifle. In fact, if I had a rifle that was not capable of shooting an average 1" group from only 25 yards, it would be finding a new home.

Not talking about the human factor, rather the rifle itself.

When I was in my sixties I could shoot well an off day for me looked excellent to others. I was never satisfied. Everyone, including me wants to improve regardless of what others think of their ability but as I mention not everyone has the ability to shoot well for what ever reason. Some peolple just get it and shoot better than average. One inch at twenty five yards is a walk throught the park for you but some people have a hard time to keep a four inch group. My nieces son had never shot a pistol so I took him to the range. A friend let him shoot his pistol. The boy was fifteen years old he shot the speed round and hit every target in in a matter of seconds. The man that ran the range told me."" that boy can shoot""! and he had seen a lot of shooters. I am like you, if a rifle doesn't shoot well it is gone!

 

[pacanis]

I've played and played with my .32 and have resigned that I'll never do any better than 13/16 at 50yds.
It doesn't look like much. Not when I'm making one ragged hole with my .45 or a .50.

But then I thought on it and that one ragged hole shooting a .50 cal ball probably still measures 13/16 or somewhere close. It just looks better than seeing five small holes that either aren't or are barely touching.

Just another way to look at it.

 

[ETipp]

When I was in my sixties I could shoot well an off day for me looked excellent to others. I was never satisfied. Everyone, including me wants to improve regardless of what others think of their ability but as I mention not everyone has the ability to shoot well for what ever reason. Some peolple just get it and shoot better than average. One inch at twenty five yards is a walk throught the park for you but some people have a hard time to keep a four inch group. My nieces son had never shot a pistol so I took him to the range. A friend let him shoot his pistol. The boy was fifteen years old he shot the speed round and hit every target in in a matter of seconds. The man that ran the range told me."" that boy can shoot""! and he had seen a lot of shooters. I am like you, if a rifle doesn't shoot well it is gone!

LME, I understand what you convey, and I agree for the most part. Everyone and every rifle is different for sure.

However, if we can show the newer comers (or those that are experiencing difficulties) that better accuracy is achievable, then IMO, they will, or should, strive harder to make it happen. No matter what sport or hobby one partakes in, it comes down to a situation of (if it is shown that it is possible) how much do you want it and are you willing to pay the price to see your goals come true.

Being a retired commercial pilot and aircraft mechanic, believe me, the last thing I wanted to do was use destructive criticism on my copilots trying to climb the ladder. It serves no purpose. We want to help them grow and flouish, and build self confidence, not beat them up.

But they must earn it.

 

[Nav]

“Only accurate rifles are interesting.” - Colonel Townsend Whelen

 

[Salty Cracker]

I've played and played with my .32 and have resigned that I'll never do any better than 13/16 at 50yds.
It doesn't look like much. Not when I'm making one ragged hole with my .45 or a .50.

But then I thought on it and that one ragged hole shooting a .50 cal ball probably still measures 13/16 or somewhere close. It just looks better than seeing five small holes that either aren't or are barely touching.

Just another way to look at it.

Haha. I suppose you're right.

 

[LME]

LME, I understand what you convey, and I agree for the most part. Everyone and every rifle is different for sure.

However, if we can show the newer comers (or those that are experiencing difficulties) that better accuracy is achievable, then IMO, they will, or should, strive harder to make it happen. No matter what sport or hobby one partakes in, it comes down to a situation of (if it is shown that it is possible) how much do you want it and are you willing to pay the price to see your goals come true.

Being a retired commercial pilot and aircraft mechanic, believe me, the last thing I wanted to do was use destructive criticism on my copilots trying to climb the ladder. It serves no purpose. We want to help them grow and flouish, and build self confidence, not beat them up.

But they must earn it.

Perfection is never achieved in the eyes of any person reaching for it? You do the best you can and you will still say,""I wish I had done this or that""! My father-in-law was a custom furniture builder he made some wonderful things. I never ever saw a flaw in any of his work but he would see something he didn't like in a piece and would tear it up and start over. His quote was, ''these people payed for the best and they are going to get it''! I don't consider myself so particular but I do strive for the best , You being a pilot know when you want to land the plane you lock in on the localizer it has to do its job. It has to be right! Have you ever really thought about it? People shooting rifles mostly shoot 100 to 1000 yards if they are only 6 inches off at a 1000 yards they are ecstatic if your planes navigation instrument were off that much you are in trouble? As far as people and shooting I do believe learning the rifle and reading up on how to shoot is a good start. The sad part is only a small percentage will become a crack shot?

 

[ETipp]

Perfection is never achieved in the eyes of any person reaching for it? You do the best you can and you will still say,""I wish I had done this or that""! My father-in-law was a custom furniture builder he made some wonderful things. I never ever saw a flaw in any of his work but he would see something he didn't like in a piece and would tear it up and start over. His quote was, ''these people payed for the best and they are going to get it''! I don't consider myself so particular but I do strive for the best , You being a pilot know when you want to land the plane you lock in on the localizer it has to do its job. It has to be right! Have you ever really thought about it? People shooting rifles mostly shoot 100 to 1000 yards if they are only 6 inches off at a 1000 yards they are ecstatic if your planes navigation instrument were off that much you are in trouble? As far as people and shooting I do believe learning the rifle and reading up on how to shoot is a good start. The sad part is only a small percentage will become a crack shot?

Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

I certainly do not consider anyone shooting a 1 inch group from 25 yards to be a crack shot, nor perfectionist, unless they can do it every time.

Again, most ML are capable of such groups. The person pulling the trigger can be a different story. I have proven this time and time again, to my sometimes sad experiences.

If you can never shoot a 1" group then you got work to do somewhere whether it be with the human element, loading, target size or with the rifle itself.

 

[LME]

Perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

I certainly do not consider anyone shooting a 1 inch group from 25 yards to be a crack shot, nor perfectionist, unless they can do it every time.

Again, most ML are capable of such groups. The person pulling the trigger can be a different story. I have proven this time and time again, to my sometimes sad experiences.

If you can never shoot a 1" group then you got work to do somewhere whether it be with the human element, loading, target size or with the rifle itself.

I am not aware of how many good or bad shooters are out there? I do know from going to rifle shoots that some people think they are great shooters but get humbled in a group of really good target shooters. I think this is what you mean? When I was shooting I liked sporter class. I could care less about the gagetry I have seen on some rifles that made them look like a prop in a "Star Wars" movie. I will have to admit they could shoot some tight groups. The 50 yard target had 25 bulls eye of 1/4 inch and a few have shot 25 times in a row and had all bulls eyes. I guess you could say that is perfection? I can count on the fingers on one hand how many in sporter class have ?One fellow in our group has and I have done it one time in my life which has been a long one. At our private range where we practiced for tournaments we saved the brass. The owner collected it and took it to a salvage yard he was payed $150 . This gives an idea of how dedicated to the sport we were! I never though I was as good as I could be with all the time I had spent practicing?

 

[Kansas Kid]

So I take it you’re not one of the (Shoots better than I can) people I’m also never quite satisfied with some of my bench groups on some of my rifles.

Tell me what ALL lubes you have tried so far.

 

[Salty Cracker]

So I take it you’re not one of the (Shoots better than I can) people I’m also never quite satisfied with some of my bench groups on some of my rifles.

Tell me what ALL lubes you have tried so far.

Hey. Is your post directed to me? If so, I have shot with cooking oil on pillow ticking and with TOTW Mink Oil on various materials. All have been adequate for me with other rifles. This one in particular is a bit finicky so that is why I purchased some swaged balls and prelubed patches. Was thinking a little more consistency. My next move is a .315 ball and .010 patch as some have suggested. I will post my results.

 

[tenngun]

The only interesting rifles are accurate ones, the old saying.
But what does that mean, what is accurate?
One hole 1/3 of an inch in diameter for a five shot group, what a dream preformance.
Two inch group same range? Hmmm
But a hunter will fill his larder with the second
I like a six o’clock hold, my eyes ain’t what they used to be. A squirrel head or a black bull sits right on top of the sight, and of two inches was the best I could do, well you can start making dumplings.
Ok been many the year since I used rifle gun to hunt tree rats. But accuracy on squirrels won’t win you a ribbon at the nationals.

 

[Kansas Kid]

Hey. Is your post directed to me? If so, I have shot with cooking oil on pillow ticking and with TOTW Mink Oil on various materials. All have been adequate for me with other rifles. This one in particular is a bit finicky so that is why I purchased some swaged balls and prelubed patches. Was thinking a little more consistency. My next move is a .315 ball and .010 patch as some have suggested. I will post my results.

Yes. Try something non greasy or oily. Plain windshield washer fluid or Alcohol. I actually use liquid hand sanitizer and tried it out of desperation on my 40 cal bench rest rifle. Now I understand the we will hear the wont work for hunting people but let’s forget that for now. I believe the slick labs don’t let pressure build to the point of allowing the ball to bump up and seal the bore.

 

[pacanis]

Hmm...
Instead of using alcohol pads to swab the barrel, maybe I should be using them as patches.
Something worth trying. Just to say I tried it.

 

[Kansas Kid]

I use whatever thickness ticking or drill cloth the rifle likes and a wet patch around the ball. No lube residue after fireing and has made a noticeable improvement in my groups. I was about to give up on a 40 colerain bbl until I tried alcohol.

Its cheap to try.

 

[hanshi]

ETipp, the Crockett .32 rifle is capable of that group size at 44 yards and maybe farther. Back when I could see a friend and I were shooting my .36 SMR at liter plastic soda bottles and the load was 20 grains of Jack's Battle Powder and the distance was 80 yards. I had no trouble hitting them where I wanted to hit once I accounted for the drop at that distance. Same goes for the fine little Crockett. I've never fired my .32 or .36 past 50 yards and mostly I set up targets at about 40 yards or a bit farther. And yes the Crockett is amazing.

I do try to keep my good targets but I also keep some of the "not-so-good" targets too. Doing that shows me that good vs bad days shoots can present useful information.

 

[Salty Cracker]

I use whatever thickness ticking or drill cloth the rifle likes and a wet patch around the ball. No lube residue after fireing and has made a noticeable improvement in my groups. I was about to give up on a 40 colerain bbl until I tried alcohol.

Its cheap to try.

Thanks for your input. If alcohol patches work for you great. I can't argue with that. Do you not have rust issues with a dry bore? Alcohol evaporates so I don't see using it as the patch would dry out and burn causing gas blow by would it not? Especially if left loaded for awhile hunting. Why not just use a spit patch then?

 

[waksupi]

Have a benchrest shooter do a group. Believe it or not, there are necessary bench rest techniques to do the best. It could be the nut behind the butt.