Help! Can't hit the taget with a traditions deerhunter .50 kit.

[marco]

Dear all

I got a traditions deerhunter .50 percussion kit but my shooting results aren't good enough for me

I am using 60-70 grains of elephant black powder and from 20 meters , all I am obtaining is flyers around the target (round paper, 20cm)

Since I can shoot well with another gun (Cabela's traditional hawken. 50), I think the problem is not me.

By now, I am thinking that the problems could be:

1. Bad adjusted sights
2. Inadequate powder charge for this particular gun
3. A gun with bad rifling
4. Too thick patches, preventing the ball get in full contact with riflings
5. Or even me, that may still didnt get the correct way to shoot this short gun (so short that looks like a carbine).

What you guys think?
There is other members with same problems with this traditions kit?

I am starting to consider to install a scope !!!!

Thanks you all

 

[William Lincoln]

If that Elephant has absorbed moisture it will not fire consistently.
Elephant hasn't been sold for awhile-to my knowledge. So try
another powder for a trial, especially if it was opened before and
set aside(it is a good powder when good and dry). Your kit has a
good barrel if made in the last 5-7 years, traditions are great shooters.
Check your sights carefully. Try 35-50 yds to initially sight in.
Try polishing the bore and shoot it for a good day. Check the barrel crown.
Those carbine like kits are known to be solid good hunting rifles.
They were not produced for competition accuracy.

 

[jdw276]

Off hand? Bench? Hang fires? What kind of patches? Lubed?

 

[Buckskinquin]

Dear all

I got a traditions deerhunter .50 percussion kit but my shooting results aren't good enough for me

I am using 60-70 grains of elephant black powder and from 20 meters , all I am obtaining is flyers around the target (round paper, 20cm)

Since I can shoot well with another gun (Cabela's traditional hawken. 50), I think the problem is not me.

By now, I am thinking that the problems could be:

1. Bad adjusted sights
2. Inadequate powder charge for this particular gun
3. A gun with bad rifling
4. Too thick patches, preventing the ball get in full contact with riflings
5. Or even me, that may still didnt get the correct way to shoot this short gun (so short that looks like a carbine).

What you guys think?
There is other members with same problems with this traditions kit?

I am starting to consider to install a scope !!!!

Thanks you all

I suggest less powder at that distance. 30-40 gr more than enough. Since you load ans shoot another mz, you know how much pressure is necessary to load the one you shoot well. If it doesnt improve, move target to 11 meters, bench 5 rounds. That’ll tell you where to start. 20 meters quite a long distance to square a new rifle away. Good luck!

 

[painter]

Could be several things, but until you can put several balls in a group it has nothing to do with sights.

As Mr. Lincoln said, try a different powder. Change one thing at a time.

 

[Flintlock]

Let someone else shoot it.

 

[deerstalkert]

Could be several things, but until you can put several balls in a group it has nothing to do with sights.

As Mr. Lincoln said, try a different powder. Change one thing at a time.

unless the sights are loose.
i found that with my new SMR. hit random in a 3 foot circle. found the front sight was floppy in the dovetail. shimmed it tight and started shooting a 1.75 inch group at 25 yards.

 

[davidmc62]

If your shooting patched round ball, may be too large of a powder charge for 20 meters. Dont need a huge charge to punch holes in paper up close. I dunno just my first thoughts.

 

[painter]

unless the sights are loose.
i found that with my new SMR. hit random in a 3 foot circle. found the front sight was floppy in the dovetail. shimmed it tight and started shooting a 1.75 inch group at 25 yards.

Good point. I stand corrected.

 

[deermanok]

I have a Traditions deerhunter rifle 50 caliber. It was a kit that I put together several years ago.
Mine too isn't consistent with the .490 ball. I've tried several different patches and powder charges.
I tried some Hornady PA conicals, 240 grain. It will put the bullets in pretty much the same hole at 50 yards.
I have some .495 round balls that I plan to try next chance I get. Hopefully I can improve my shooting with a round ball.

 

[Flintlock]

unless the sights are loose.
i found that with my new SMR. hit random in a 3 foot circle. found the front sight was floppy in the dovetail. shimmed it tight and started shooting a 1.75 inch group at 25 yards.

I forgot that happened to me as well last year, snugged it down then shot great groups.

 

[longcruise]

If your other rifle shoots well with the same powder, then it's probably not the powder.

1. Bad adjusted sight

Maybe loose sights but adjustment would no effect group, only point of impact.

2. Inadequate powder charge for this particular gun

The charge is not out of line. My 50 Deerhunter shot fine with 50 to 80 grains of powder.

3. A gun with bad rifling

Probably not, but possibly rough rifling. Possibly a rough edge to the lead into the rifling at the muzzle is damaging the patch when the ball is started. Pick up your fired patches and examine them. In fact, show us some pictures.


4. Too thick patches, preventing the ball get in full contact with riflings.

This is not a "thing". But this could relate back to rough barrel and/or sharp muzzle crown.

5. Or even me, that may still

Maybe, but if you shoot well with your other 50 then.......?

My Deerhunter shoots pretty good with a 495 ball and .017 patch, BUT, yours should shoot fine with 490 if everything else fits right.

Describe the sights on your rifle.

 

[marco]

1. How do you guys dry your powder up and safely?

2..what means polishing the bore?

3. I am Shooting 490 balls, off hand, thick linen patches lubed with olive oil

4 I gonna try some shots again 5 to 10 meters in bench

5 my sights are Solid (pre checked)

6. But 20grains and even 70 grains should produce the same precision at. 20m, didn't they? So what's the difference of how many powder to use at 20 m distance?

7..I have no access to Hornady bullets in my
third country but I'm trying to import a 320 combo lee real bullet mould. It's just backordered all over the place.

8 gonna hunt some fired patches to examine and show here

9 My sight are that provided with the kit. This one's;

https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/...r-sidelock-15-16-inch-octagonal-barrels-A1571
Thanks you all!!

 

[bang]

New barrel. Either shoot it quite a bit with grain equal to caliber checking patches for tears and or cuts till they don't.
Scrub the bore with steel wool to remove sharp edges. Then shoot a bunch.
If deep grooves use little thicker patch. Should be snug enough to get some fabric imprint on ball.
Do check for loose sights.
Make sure no slop in barrel to stock.
Make sure barrel and lock are clear of each other.
Make sure barrel wedge is holding barrel solid but not pulling down or pushing up and no l/r movement.
If powder more like ff try FFF.

 

[pmccoywss]

But 20grains and even 70 grains should produce the same precision at. 20m, didn't they? So what's the difference of how many powder to use at 20 m distance?

Rifles usually have two loads that will group well, with loads below, above, or between the "sweet spot" loads that will have poorer groups.

Start with 40 grains and shoot five shot groups from a bench, then increase by 5 gr and repeat the five shot group. Do this every five grains up to about 100-120 grains. You should find two loads which are better than the others (mine were 90gr and 120 gr, and old time shooters told me there would be another good spot around 140 grains, but that was way more than I needed for hunting).

This method allows you to get the bore smoothed up while developing a load. Also gives you lots of opportunities to retrieve patches to inspect.

Keep the ball size and patch size the same for all shots, changing only the powder amount. Once you find one or two good loads you can try them with different patch and ball combinations.

 

[deerstalkert]

1. How do you guys dry your powder up and safely?

Marco, i save up all the little absorbent packs that come with things to keep them from rusting in transit.
i just toss one in my powder bottle.
in my powder magazine i have a couple dehumidifiers that can be recharged when needed.
steel wont rust below 50% humidity, but black powder doesn't play well over 6% .

since your sights are tight next i would suspect patch thickness and/or type of material.
what patches are you using?

 

[Bigpete]

Try a conical too.

 

[necchi]

" traditions deerhunter .50 percussion kit but my shooting results aren't good enough.

The "kit", May not have the breech/tang imposition set properly, a very common issue. The tang needs to be fully set against the wood stock with free and complete tang lock-up.

3. ,, 490 balls, off hand, thick linen patches lubed with olive oil

Olive oil,, sure, nothing wrong there, Until the patches are dripping oil when ya load'm,, and the linen is from an old shirt.

4. I gonna try some shots again 5 to 10 meters in bench

Good idea.

6. But 20grains and even 70 grains should produce the same precision at. 20m, didn't they?

That's an absolute misconception. it doesn't work like that.
What I'm getting at is we're here to help ya,, but actual detail will help us help you.
Nothing wrong with learning at all.
Experience tells us your rifle should have much better results,, hang in there,, let's figure it out,

 

[TreeMan]

Sit down at a bench with good sandbags, put a big target at 25 yards, get a couple different thicknesses of good pillow ticking. Start with about 60 grains of your powder. Wipe between shots. If you don’t want to wet wipe between shots use a good lube. Spit or mink oil works. Olive oil will work but make sure it’s not dripping wet to contaminate your powder. Shoot five shots from the bench at your target. If the group doesn’t satisfy you switch one thing at a time. Thicker/thinner patch, less or more powder, clean between shots, different lube. I’ve found that plain ol spit works as well as anything and it’s free. Once you get a good group then work on adjusting your sights. It’s a process to learn what your rifle likes. Never file your sights until you have a good one hole/cloverleaf group at 25 yards from a bench. I’ve never seen a traditions rifle in good condition that would shoot one ragged hole at 25 yards. They have very good barrels. You cannot sight in a rifle or make any headway shooting offhand.

 

[Norman Brooks]

Tried elephant black powder once. The only way I could hit the broad side of a barn was if I was inside with the doors closed. Try Goex or other brands...