Goex v. Pyrodex v. Triple 7

[S.Kenton]

I used 777 for a while, then was turned to goex by a buddy of mine. I've used it ever since, it smells better and sounds right. It seems to me that 777 has a weird "crack " sound to it and a kick. Goex has a deeper sound and more of a push when ignited.... Might just be me too...

 

[Bent Sight]

I used 777 for a while, then was turned to goex by a buddy of mine. I've used it ever since, it smells better and sounds right. It seems to me that 777 has a weird "crack " sound to it and a kick. Goex has a deeper sound and more of a push when ignited.... Might just be me too...

I noticed the same thing when comparing Pyrodex RS and Triple Se7en FFFG. The T7 report definitely cracks more and the recoil is more of a sharp crack than a push.

 

[Newtire]

"the selling point of Pyrodex when it first came out was that it was supposed to foul the bbl less than black powder"
Actually, it stated Pyrodex did not corrode "like" black powder. That was a lawyer/market play on words. It corrodes, and badly, but in a manner different than black powder. I use only bp. I'm kind of a snob on that point.

Yes, I remember being handed that line from all the reading I did on it. After leaving a T/C " Hawken" sit in the closet for 3-days, I found out how badly that stuff corrodes metal. I don't so much like 777 in rifles because of the crud ring ( hoping someone has a kind of lube to use that takes care of that someday). Real black has them beat I think. Better than all of them is Black MZ which is mysteriously disappearing from the market, hmmmm...some of us wonder. Other than the smoke being particularly stinky in it's own way and they are saying it doesn't work in flintlock guns, can't figure this out. Best stuff ever for cap guns.

 

[dlgcrosstimbers]

I don't have the experience as most of you guys, but I was shooting last summer with a friend who had some Pyrodex and I was shooting Goex. I was attempting to get a workable load for a .32 and swabbing good between shots. I tried both powders. The Pyrodex was noticeably dirtier and fouled my barrel quicker than the Goex did. Plus it didn't have the same nice "Boom" and rollin smoke smell that the Goex has.

 

[Carbon 6]

Don't worry lovers of Black MZ I'm sure it will be back under a new name again.
Although, when examining the list of failed propellants it's clear to see only one has stood the test of time---Real black powder.
There really is no substitute.

All these powders are now gone or on their way out.

Alliant Black mz

Alliant Black Dot

Shockley's gold

American pioneer

Clean shot

Golden powder

Black Mag 3

Goex pinnacle.

Black Canyon

 

[snubnose57]

Don't worry lovers of Black MZ I'm sure it will be back under a new name again.
Although, when examining the list of failed propellants it's clear to see only one has stood the test of time---Real black powder.
There really is no substitute.

All these powders are now gone or on their way out.

Alliant Black mz

Alliant Black Dot

Shockley's gold

American pioneer

Clean shot

Golden powder

Black Mag 3

Goex pinnacle.

Black Canyon

I use Triple 7 in my revolvers, also shoot them more than my rifles. Thus, I have plenty of real black powder on hand for my flinters and caplocks.

 

[Griz44Mag]

My favorite powder is Black MZ. If Black MZ were not available then i'd switch to Pyrodex.

i thoroughly detest black powder.

I shoot nothing but the real deal, because it gets great results and smells like it's supposed to!

 

[Sinner]

I also prefer real BP. The substitutes are more hygroscopic and attract moisture.

 

[brayhaven]

Did a lot of testing on bp and subs over the years. Though quite a few have come (& gone) since the testing. But of the main ones, 777 was the most consistent velocity & accuracy of the subs and easily ignited with perc. Very good velocity and low variation when weighing charges. Pyrodex was the worst in all departments, and even more corrosive and dirty than BP. I built a contender carbine barrel in 40 cal using a green mtn blank. Scoped it to test for accuracy. One yr I won the state pistol match using 777. That said, I use Swiss bp for everything except inlines now. (Bh209).

 

[watopeka]

For me BLACK POWDER ONLY , what ever kind i can get my hands on.
When pyrodex came out a long time ago , i jump on it with all the hype around the powder . Since then they’ve change the chemical recipe . It was very corrosive and difficult to clean.
I had two TC in a .50 cal , they would shoot an easy one inch groups at 50 yrds all day . Then one day could barely make a 5 inche grouping . Sent everything to TC replaced with 2 new barrels. Super company change everything at no charge . Let’s just say that I’m very close minded when it comes to BP vs subs. I know its getting harder and harder to get . But if you can get some

 

[Newtire]

While I have nothing against black powder, I can think of some big reasons to avoid Pyrodex. Not counting the week old high school gym locker smell it gives off, the highly corrosive nature is another. Maybe because I lived on the left coastal foggy area, mine clumped up and became difficult to set off with time. Apart from these things, it worked pretty well. Triple 7 did indeed leave a "crud ring" that made it hard to get the next ball past and could prove dangerous if one weren't paying attention to the fact that the ball wasn't seating against the powder. You could bounce your ramrod all you wanted in my gun when this happened. Have heard that it degrades over time from a reliable source. They left some revolvers loaded for a whole year and the loads were chrono'ed at about 1/3 the normal speed. The velocity gain was pretty high when used fresh out of the can.

The one substitute that has me baffled is Black MZ. It's been removed from the market for some reason. I have heard it was just rebranded "Shockey's Gold" is one story. I wouldn't know because I never have used that stuff.

I know it looks real ugly and it clumps up. I was always able to shake it and it went back to it's regular irregular shape of granulation. The Chrono tests I ran on it showed velocity comparable to 2f Goex in loads behind heavier projectiles but a bit slower volume for volume in the smaller bores. The wide variation in velocity that I had heard about wasn't there either. I have been hesitant about using it in flintlock guns as I had one FTF with it using it "straight up". Put 5 or so grains of 3f behind it and it went bang every time but still, left a ton of fouling. When using it in my caplock guns, no FTF issues. No difficult fouling or crud ring or corrosion either.

So, having gotten way off track (as usual), I would give my vote to real black over any of the "subs" except for Black MZ. The jury is still out on 777 as I like it in revolvers and keep using it for that reason.

For flintlock guns, real black is my choice. As far as other guns, it depends on what gun I'm shooting is my answer.

 

[SDSmlf]

Big fan of Swiss. Try running fff in everything.

Many of the barrels that I have seen with ‘frosting’ or corrosion near the breech in the bore seemed to have one thing in common - Pyrodex. In my experience the stuff just doesn’t clean up well with water like black powder does. If the barrel isn’t properly cleaned after using Pyrodex there seems to be some residue that over time attracts moisture and it ugly friend corrosion. That said, many use Pyrodex without issue. Just need to be diligent with the cleaning process.

 

[30coupe]

I tried 777, and I hated it. I could not get consistent accuracy, but the worst problem was the aforementioned crud ring. That alone is enough to stay away from the stuff. I get good accuracy, no crud ring, and easy cleaning with real fffg black powder. I do have some Pyrodex RS. I tried it in an inline in place of 777. It left no crud ring, but accuracy was horrible. I can consistently get 1 1/2" 100 yard groups or better with fffg in the same rifle. I haven't been brave enough to try it in my cap locks due to all the corrosion horror stories here. I think I'll stick with real black powder.

As to brand, I've been using Diamondback. It was all I could get locally, so I bought it. It is fairly dirty, but is I use a damp patch lubed with Hoppes BP Lube and Solvent I can shoot multiple shots before having to swab. I plan to give one of the other brands a try once my supply of Diamondback is exhausted. Graf's seems to be the most economical at this point.

 

[bisleyjohn]

Big fan of Swiss. Try running fff in everything.

Many of the barrels that I have seen with ‘frosting’ or corrosion near the breech in the bore seemed to have one thing in common - Pyrodex. In my experience the stuff just doesn’t clean up well with water like black powder does. If the barrel isn’t properly cleaned after using Pyrodex there seems to be some residue that over time attracts moisture and it ugly friend corrosion. That said, many use Pyrodex without issue. Just need to be diligent with the cleaning process.

In the UK we need an explosives licence to buy and/or keep Black Powder, this used to be a problem but the certificate is isued free if you have a firearms certificate. Pyrodex, however has no restrictions, no certifiate, no storage hoops to jump through, no licence required to buy. For my own firearms I prefer black, whatever I can get because supplies are intermittent. So by answer to the original question is 'BLACK'

 

[Walkingeagle]

I’ve been playing this game for a little over 21 years and started out with Pyrodex RS. It shot great in my .50 T/C Hawken percussion I had as my introductory muzzleloader. After researching and reading all the reported benefits of the “holy black” I purchased a mixed box of both 2 and 3fg Goex (several pounds of both). I was not impressed at all. The fouling was atrocious, follow up shots were a nightmare to seat the prb and I was lost as to why. I immediately went back to the Pyrodex RS and have since switched to Pyrodex P in my .54. Cleanup is easy, accuracy is great and I do not need to wipe between shots while hunting. It is easy to purchase up here (Alberta) and works for me. I still have some Goex as when I read a post where I get a new idea I do try it, but always ended up back with the Pyrodex P.
To me I actually question if the “holy black” is just that, a religious following, and damnation to anyone who speaks ill of it!!
Walk

 

[Bad Karma]

The only ignition problems I’ve had in sidelock rifles always involved Pyrodex. Never a problem with real quality black powder (Swiss, Schuetzen and years past, Elephant) I’m also not troubled with fouling issues that some of you folks are having. I use 3f in pistols and most rifles, 2f in big bore guns and shotguns.

It’s not a religious affiliation with me, good Black Powder just works but as always, your mileage may vary.

 

[mthom1957]

Don't worry lovers of Black MZ I'm sure it will be back under a new name again.
Although, when examining the list of failed propellants it's clear to see only one has stood the test of time---Real black powder.
There really is no substitute.

All these powders are now gone or on their way out.

Alliant Black mz

Alliant Black Dot

Shockley's gold

American pioneer

Clean shot

Golden powder

Black Mag 3

Goex pinnacle.

Black Canyon

IMO, I don’t believe Black Mag 3 was a failed propellant but rather the manufacturer failed it. They were never good at marketing it and in the end when Alliant was to take over manufacturing it Magkor( the manufacturer at the time) had an explosion killing a couple of people and subsequently faced fines and safety violations. The story goes that Alliant then had to find another company to make their Black MZ which originally to be rebranded Black Mag3. That company turned out to be American Pioneer, so the story goes. I’ve used Black Mag3 for years and still have a small quantity left. It is a very clean shooting and versatile powder. It would be suitable in everything from flintlocks to percussions to inlines. Much better than 777 leaving no crud ring and equal in power.
Having said all that, I prefer Pyrodex in my TC Renegade. BTW, I use the Black Mag3 in my TC Omega.

 

[Carbon 6]

Fouling doesn't bother me, I'm a muzzleloading enthusiast. I love them for what they are, not what I wish they were.
Cleaning fouling is part of the experience. If I wanted to shoot "clean" powder I'd shoot a cartridge gun.

I love muzzleloaders, I accept and embrace all of their shortcomings.
Round balls, iron sights, wooden ramrods, dirty powder, or whatever.
I love all the things that make them muzzleloaders. If you take those things away what are you left with ?
They are black powder firearms and I'm a black powder shooter.

 

[Stony Broke]

Real BP....it's what they were built for and it's what works.

 

[Idaholewis]

I use Real Blackpowder, Swiss 2 and 3F, It goes off IMMEDIATELY and i get the best accuracy from Swiss in all of my Muzzleloaders.