Goex v. Pyrodex v. Triple 7

[Melnic]

Don't worry lovers of Black MZ I'm sure it will be back under a new name again.
Although, when examining the list of failed propellants it's clear to see only one has stood the test of time---Real black powder.
There really is no substitute.

All these powders are now gone or on their way out.

Alliant Black mz

Alliant Black Dot

Shockley's gold

American pioneer

Clean shot

Golden powder

Black Mag 3

Goex pinnacle.

Black Canyon

That American Pioneer stuff was horrible. My first year of ML I purchased some cause there was a shortage of BP as well as even subs where I live and got some AP up in PA at a Gander MT (another failed venture). The 2F was more like 1F. very chunky and inconsistent. I heard the same of "Shockey's gold)

I still have 1/2 lb of that American Pioneer stuff. In a sidelock, it was yielding a delay in ignition. A guy at the range gifted me 1/2lb goex and showed me to duplex 10-15grains of real BP to get the ignition going with the sub on top of that.

 

[Okie Hog]

The one substitute that has me baffled is Black MZ. It's been removed from the market for some reason.

The manufacture of Black MZ has apparently ceased. Black MZ is still widely available. Sportsman's Warehouse has it for $10.00 per pound.

 

[Bad Karma]

Fouling doesn't bother me, I'm a muzzleloading enthusiast. I love them for what they are, not what I wish they were.
Cleaning fouling is part of the experience. If I wanted to shoot "clean" powder I'd shoot a cartridge gun.

I love muzzleloaders, I accept and embrace all of their shortcomings.
Round balls, iron sights, wooden ramrods, dirty powder, or whatever.
I love all the things that make them muzzleloaders. If you take those things away what are you left with ?
They are black powder firearms and I'm a black powder shooter.

Thanks for saying this, it’s an human impulse to make things “better” but the muzzleloading weapons and powders we use were already at a high level of development by the turn of the century. To the extent I can restrain myself, I like to use them as they were used back then.

 

[Khufu]

I started out using Goex back in the early 70s. in Utah it was readily available from several businesses. when the Goex plant blew up in the late 70s it was hard, if not impossible to get Goex, so I tried Pyrodex. it fouled, shot poorly, when it actually went off, and was generally junk. That's when I started making the Holy Black in the back yard. I had no accidents, but when Goex was available again I quit making my own. Since I prefer flintlocks, and never have, nor ever will own an inline, the only powder I will use is Black Powder. once the barrel is seasoned, I never have any fouling issues and other than filthy hands after a day at the range (nothing baby wipes can't handle) There is no down side to the real deal.

 

[rodwha]

I use Real Blackpowder, Swiss 2 and 3F, It goes off IMMEDIATELY and i get the best accuracy from Swiss in all of my Muzzleloaders.

I’m curious if you’ve tried Goex Olde Eynsford. It’s designed to compete with Swiss and from the chronographed results it does a fair job at keeping up in the velocity and fouling department. Some say it is just as accurate and they’ve switched and others say it’s nowhere near as accurate and stick with Swiss.

I’ve yet to try Swiss but will eventually try it. I’ve been happy enough with Olde E (and T7 for that matter). I like that it’s an American made powder and quite a bit cheaper.

 

[atllaw]

Over the decades I musta tried every BP Sub. introduced, looking for something that worked as well as BP and was easier to clean up. It finally dawned on me that I was wasting my time trying to find something that "was as good as" and just went back to using Holy Black.
Now I gotta try that Swiss stuff!

 

[Lobo3603]

When I first got involved with shooting MZL I had the benefit of two old timers that had been shooting for over 60 years each. A grand total of 120 years experience. Both, do to age, have stopped walking the bush, but still enjoyed the fun and smell of shooting the different black powder MZL in their possession. We all are target shooters now. At the range it is common to shoot between 30 and 60 rounds at one time, twice a week. Using a damp patched round ball we found that swabbing between shoots was not needed. Loading was easy and accuracy was maintained. Offhand 25yd- 1", 50yd-2 1/2" and 100yd- 3to4" approx. They swear that the only powder down a barrel should be black of the appropriate granule size for the gauge or caliber you are shooting. Being a Young buck, as usual, I listened to them and then did what I wanted. I found out quickly the that they where 100% correct. Black powder, real black powder is the only thing to shoot from a MZL. Pyrodex, pellets or powder will not ignite in a flint lock, cap locks have success but does not meet the velocity or smell factor. 777 much closer but still doesn't measure up to true BP. As for clean up I spend no more time cleaning my BP riles than I do with my smokeless one. Hot water is all that is needed with a very light coat of oil or lube. Think about it, 200 years ago none of these fancy clears where around, but a a stream could all ways be found. I have shot MZL that are over 120 years old and they were in perfect condition. 120 years of experience and one young bucks findings. Thats my 2 cents anyway.
May the sun always shine and your powder always be dry

 

[SDSmlf]

Find Swiss to be the cleanest, most consistent and energetic of the real black powders. Have compared it to Goex, 777, Pyrodex and vintage black powders (Dupont, Horgdon and GO) and have found Swiss at worst to be at least as good and typically superior to other powders. None of the subs IMO are a serious challenger to Swiss. Myself, start load development with any gun with fff Swiss and 90% of the time it works great. Have found f to show some promise in 12 gauge.

 

[Idaholewis]

I’m curious if you’ve tried Goex Olde Eynsford. It’s designed to compete with Swiss and from the chronographed results it does a fair job at keeping up in the velocity and fouling department. Some say it is just as accurate and they’ve switched and others say it’s nowhere near as accurate and stick with Swiss.

I’ve yet to try Swiss but will eventually try it. I’ve been happy enough with Olde E (and T7 for that matter). I like that it’s an American made powder and quite a bit cheaper.

rodwha, I did compare Olde E just Recently, and had very high hopes for it. Check out the Modern Muzzleloader forum (Same forum owner as this Site) You will find those tests under the Sidelock Section, 52bore also has a Group pic there, that is what tempted me to try Olde E.

I live 30 minutes or so from Buffalo Arms Co. They carry Both Swiss and Goex. I was hoping that Olde E would Perform the Same, I would Rather buy US Made, and it is 6-7 Dollars a Pound cheaper. But fact is i was not impressed with Goex Olde E, in Fact i would Gladly give the Rest of this Brand New Can of it away. No comparison to Swiss accuracy wise, My short testing of Olde E helped me to understand Why you RARELY see it in Serious Competition, Swiss is King of Serious competitors for a Good Reason.

 

[rodwha]

rodwha, I did compare Olde E just Recently, and had very high hopes for it. Check out the Modern Muzzleloader forum (Same forum owner as this Site) You will find those tests under the Sidelock Section, 52bore also has a Group pic there, that is what tempted me to try Olde E.

I live 30 minutes or so from Buffalo Arms Co. They carry Both Swiss and Goex. I was hoping that Olde E would Perform the Same, I would Rather buy US Made, and it is 6-7 Dollars a Pound cheaper. But fact is i was not impressed with Goex Olde E, in Fact i would Gladly give the Rest of this Brand New Can of it away. No comparison to Swiss accuracy wise, My short testing of Olde E helped me to understand Why you RARELY see it in Serious Competition, Swiss is King of Serious competitors for a Good Reason.

I guess that’s even more incentive to try Swiss for myself. It’s the only other BP I’d be willing to use as the rest have neutered performance. I’ve only barely used a little Pyrodex (in my revolvers) and T7 to compare with, and 3F Olde E has proven itself to perform about as well as 3F T7. I’ve certainly read enough opinions of T7 not being all that impressive (rifles?).