Goex v. Pyrodex v. Triple 7

[Carbon 6]

Fine, go to americanlongrifles.com go to blackpowder and read in the pyrodex thread and read all you wish.

Apparently you missed the part where I said I wasn't interested in forum gossip from other forums. If you really feel the need to share, you could copy and paste it.

 

[Rat]

I am absolutely a black powder snob, and my favorite snob-powder is Swiss. That stuff burns CLEAN. Due to the price, I use it mostly (ffg) in my Jeager and black powder revolvers. I use goex fffg in my cap-gun rifles, and Goex fg in my Brown Bessie. I'm running low, so almost time to break the bank and get some more pounds of ffg and fffg Swiss. Goex I can find locally.

The only, and I mean ONLY problems I have ever had with black powder guns, was when trying fake powders. I hate them, and they suck. They are modern smokeless powders, with junk thrown into the mix to make them smoke.

 

[FishDFly]

Apparently you missed the part where I said I wasn't interested in forum gossip from other forums. If you really feel the need to share, you could copy and paste it.

Per the forum rules, folks are not to refer to other forums, DUH.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I am absolutely a black powder snob, ...., Goex I can find locally.
The only, and I mean ONLY problems I have ever had with black powder guns, was when trying fake powders. I hate them, and they suck. They are modern smokeless powders, with junk thrown into the mix to make them smoke.

I agree and am a snob when it comes to black powder vs. a sub.

Now Pyrodex is actually a reverse engineered Black Powder, which is why it's so dang corrosive.
Original gunpowder was a loose mixture with low or no sulfur, and it took a lot of heat, like a heated to yellow iron wire to get it to go BOOM. It was really only used for siege guns at first. When they figured out to add the sulfur, and in a proper amount, it went off more easily, then you started to see "hand gonnes" come into play. Following that..., they figured out to combine the ingredients for much better results.

Pyrodex original is 8% sulfur, and divides the potassium nitrate equally with potassium perchlorate. These two changes create "black powder", but it deflagrates much slower than BP when not under compression and thus avoids the "explosives" standard.
GOEX is likely (since the absolute formula they don't share) 75% potassium nitrate, 15% charcoal, and 10% sulfur.

LD

 

[Carbon 6]

but it deflagrates much slower than BP when not under compression and thus avoids the "explosives" standard.


LD

Hmm, I wonder if that's why they add a fire retardant to the mix? To make it deflagrate slower or at a higher temperature?
Any guesses what that retardant might be called?

 

[azmntman]

Okie...why you detest black powder? Its my first choice followed by Blk MZ and triple 7.

 

[Carbon 6]

Per the forum rules, folks are not to refer to other forums, DUH.

Hasn't stopped you or another member from doing it so far. There doesn't seem to be anyone policing it. Besides, I don't think copy and paste of text is quite the same as linking to another forum.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Hmm, I wonder if that's why they add a fire retardant to the mix? To make it deflagrate slower or at a higher temperature?
Any guesses what that retardant might be called?

The formula is Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Perchlorate, charcoal, sulfur, and trace graphite. There's no "fire retardant', the perchlorate merely burns at a much slower rate. It's used in sparklers, and was once used in model rocket engines, but now mostly ammonium perchlorate is used in model rockets. I wonder if they switched to all potassium perchlorate and omitted the potassium nitrate, if shooting a round ball would be like launching a bottle rocket...though probably more like that "dragon fire" stuff for modern shotguns....

LD

 

[Okie Hog]

Okie...why you detest black powder?

Because it's cruddy.

 

[Carbon 6]

The formula is Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Perchlorate, charcoal, sulfur, and trace graphite. There's no "fire retardant', the perchlorate merely burns at a much slower rate. It's used in sparklers, and was once used in model rocket engines, but now mostly ammonium perchlorate is used in model rockets. I wonder if they switched to all potassium perchlorate and omitted the potassium nitrate, if shooting a round ball would be like launching a bottle rocket...though probably more like that "dragon fire" stuff for modern shotguns....

LD

My apologies, I thought you were referring to Triple Seven. You are correct regarding Pyrodex. Although, not all ingredients are required to be disclosed. (trade secrets).

 

[oldwolf]

Once I burn thought my 10 pounds of Pyrodex, I'll try BP.
I've not had any problems with the substitute.

 

[oldwolf]

To be honest, I have no preferences. I get what ever I can & make it work. The last batch I got was French, & I heard that this gunpowder was inferior, but I found it to work just fine.

Keith.

What a delightful and practical answer.

 

[Zonie]

I see dicyanamide mentioned as being in the Pyrodex Patent and I don't doubt that it was however, according to the Safety Data Sheet for Pyrodex, it is not present in the product now.

If you have a way to open a PDF file, you should open this link and look at the composition information.

http://westrocketry.com/sli2010/msds/pyrodex_pellets.pdf

or this one

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/medi...s/Blackhorn-209/Hodgdon-Pyrodex-SDS-Sheet.pdf


Although on the SDS it says, "Note: Other ingredients are trade secrets, but may be disclosed per ...", none of those ingredients can be considered as hazardous or they would have to be listed on the SDS. (In other words, hazardous things like dicyanamide can't be hidden under the label of being a "secret").

 

[user 29778]

I started off using Pyrodex RS in my Lyman GPR 54 percussion. I really wasn't getting the consistency in shot placement I like. But since it's my first and only muzzle loader, I immediately thought it's a shooter problem (still could be). I kept launching balls down range until I ran out of Pyrodex. I bought some Goex FFg to try and there was quite a difference in consistency of the shots - tighter groups, more accurate, etc. The shooter still needs work, but there's nothing wrong with the rifle using Goex.

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

My fav would be Goex absolutely, but the availability is poor around here. I have had good luck with the small amount of 777 I have used and it is fairly well available around here too. Fortunately, I use it only outside! I may have to switch to that until I an buy a case of Goex.

 

[rodwha]

I am absolutely a black powder snob, and my favorite snob-powder is Swiss. That stuff burns CLEAN. Due to the price, I use it mostly (ffg) in my Jeager and black powder revolvers. I use goex fffg in my cap-gun rifles, and Goex fg in my Brown Bessie. I'm running low, so almost time to break the bank and get some more pounds of ffg and fffg Swiss. Goex I can find locally.

The only, and I mean ONLY problems I have ever had with black powder guns, was when trying fake powders. I hate them, and they suck. They are modern smokeless powders, with junk thrown into the mix to make them smoke.

You might want to try Goex’s Olde Eynsford, especially if Goex can easily be found for you. Olde E was designed to compete with Swiss, and from tests in revolvers it gives it a run for its money, but with a cheaper price tag and made here. I use it and like it, but haven’t tried other brands of BP to compare it to, just T7 and Pyrodex. Oh, and it’s roughly a dollar more than standard Goex, yet much cleaner from what I’ve read.

 

[Bent Sight]

I started off using Pyrodex RS in my Lyman GPR 54 percussion. I really wasn't getting the consistency in shot placement I like. But since it's my first and only muzzle loader, I immediately thought it's a shooter problem (still could be). I kept launching balls down range until I ran out of Pyrodex. I bought some Goex FFg to try and there was quite a difference in consistency of the shots - tighter groups, more accurate, etc. The shooter still needs work, but there's nothing wrong with the rifle using Goex.

My neighbor, who I compete with at rifle matches on a monthly basis, had the same experience. He said he was not happy with the accuracy of his muzzle loader when he shot Pyrodex RS. He bought some black powder at an estate sale and said he noticed a considerable improvement in group size and consistency over the Pyrodex.

 

[Carbon 6]

My neighbor, who I compete with at rifle matches on a monthly basis, had the same experience. He said he was not happy with the accuracy of his muzzle loader when he shot Pyrodex RS. He bought some black powder at an estate sale and said he noticed a considerable improvement in group size and consistency over the Pyrodex.

Try Pryrodex P instead of RS Reduce your charge by 10%
Also hotter ignition like a hot-shot nipple or a larger nipple flash hole may be required when using Pyrodex. Especially if you have a patent breech.

There is no substitute for real black powder, but subs like pyrodex can perform with extreme accuracy. The key is consistent ignition.

 

[Bent Sight]

Try Pryrodex P instead of RS Reduce your charge by 10%
Also hotter ignition like a hot-shot nipple or a larger nipple flash hole may be required when using Pyrodex. Especially if you have a patent breech.

There is no substitute for real black powder, but subs like pyrodex can perform with extreme accuracy. The key is consistent ignition.

I have a couple of pounds of Pyrodex RS left and do not plan on purchasing more. I tried Pyrodex P with similar accuracy results. There was a slight improvement in all three of my rifles.

I have been experimenting with Hodgdon Triple Se7en FFFG and FFG. You can tell a noticeable increase in recoil and report, even when reducing charge weights to produce velocities equal to my Pyrodex RS and P loads. The Triple Se7en definitely burns cleaner.

When I find myself in an area where black powder is sold, I plan on picking up a few pounds and working up loads for my rifles. Unfortunately, it is not sold locally and when people refer me to websites that sell it what I am interested in is out of stock.

 

[stude 283]

I have a couple of pounds of Pyrodex RS left and do not plan on purchasing more. I tried Pyrodex P with similar accuracy results. There was a slight improvement in all three of my rifles.

I have been experimenting with Hodgdon Triple Se7en FFFG and FFG. You can tell a noticeable increase in recoil and report, even when reducing charge weights to produce velocities equal to my Pyrodex RS and P loads. The Triple Se7en definitely burns cleaner.

When I find myself in an area where black powder is sold, I plan on picking up a few pounds and working up loads for my rifles. Unfortunately, it is not sold locally and when people refer me to websites that sell it what I am interested in is out of stock.

Graf's is stocked up now. I like their house brand powder. Reasonably priced,burns clean for me.
They have most brands and seem to be the lowest on shipping.