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Now I can't say that I'm an expert at the art of flint and steel fire starting but I can say that I've made char punk tender and char cloth and I'm getting fair at getting a spark and glowing embers in the tin. My next form of punishment is going to be the bow and string method of fire starting. You know if your out there with flint and steel but no char anything you need to make some so you need a fire. I took my wife to the eye specialist and while we were waiting I noticed on TV a t v show from the past. Bonanza. Little Joe was building a fire with the bow and string and stick. You know friction fire. You know I have a lot of time on hand to do this. I will look for demonstrations on the computer. Wish me luck
 
Now I can't say that I'm an expert at the art of flint and steel fire starting but I can say that I've made char punk tender and char cloth and I'm getting fair at getting a spark and glowing embers in the tin. My next form of punishment is going to be the bow and string method of fire starting. You know if your out there with flint and steel but no char anything you need to make some so you need a fire. I took my wife to the eye specialist and while we were waiting I noticed on TV a t v show from the past. Bonanza. Little Joe was building a fire with the bow and string and stick. You know friction fire. You know I have a lot of time on hand to do this. I will look for demonstrations on the computer. Wish me luck
No you do not need a fire to make tinder RH. See below:



My method of fire bow fire lighting is a little different than most people demonstrate, in so much as I add tinder to make it easier to transfer the ember.
Keith.
 
No you do not need a fire to make tinder RH. See below:



My method of fire bow fire lighting is a little different than most people demonstrate, in so much as I add tinder to make it easier to transfer the ember.
Keith.

Yes but I need to work or try the bow method. I've never done that either. You know this is a lot of fun. I like the video too. I've got to be the worst at explaining what I mean. In order to be able to use or for me to use the flint and still I need char something. Be it wood or cloth . Now for me to make this I need a fire to start with and I would only have to use the bow method once to fill the tinder box. Now after I am able to start a fire with the bow I'll think of another way to play with fire. After all I'm just a 69 year old kid.
 
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Now I can't say that I'm an expert at the art of flint and steel fire starting but I can say that I've made char punk tender and char cloth and I'm getting fair at getting a spark and glowing embers in the tin. My next form of punishment is going to be the bow and string method of fire starting. You know if your out there with flint and steel but no char anything you need to make some so you need a fire. I took my wife to the eye specialist and while we were waiting I noticed on TV a t v show from the past. Bonanza. Little Joe was building a fire with the bow and string and stick. You know friction fire. You know I have a lot of time on hand to do this. I will look for demonstrations on the computer. Wish me luck
You also don't need char or a fire/flame to make char - I watched a friend strike sparks into a piece of UN-charred punky wood and use that to start a fire.

A friction-fire set does create its own char, but it is far more complicated that shown on TV or internet videos (materials selection and construction are critical). The first time I got one, it took the better part of an hour and the efforts of 2 people. Now, with considerably more practice and depending on weather/humidity, getting a coal takes somewhere between 1 minute and never...

My personal kit:
Hearthboard & spindle made from Cottonwood, bow and socket (deer ankle bone).
20190101_184546.jpg
 
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Interesting tinder discussion. Non-match primitive fire lighting is kind of an area of expertise. Flint + steel, hand drill, bowdrill, compression, etc. Would there be interest here in learning about natural organic tinders that can be used WITHOUT charing or special treatment?
 
You also don't need char or a fire/flame to make char - I watched a friend strike sparks into a piece of UN-charred punky wood and use that to start a fire.

A friction-fire set does create its own char, but it is far more complicated that shown on TV or internet videos (materials selection and construction are critical). The first time I got one, it took the better part of an hour and the efforts of 2 people. Now, with considerably more practice and depending on weather/humidity, getting a coal takes somewhere between 1 minute and never...
It really is not the end of the trip but fun getting there. I do enjoy all that I learn from the videos and fun trying to duplicate the process. When I was young we heated and cooked with wood burning stoves and there was never time to do any of this. We struck a match lite the fire and started our chores before school. Now that I'm retired I have the time to play. Now as stated before I don't know if I will ever need to use any of these skills but it's nice to know how if I do .
 
Interesting tinder discussion. Non-match primitive fire lighting is kind of an area of expertise. Flint + steel, hand drill, bowdrill, compression, etc. Would there be interest here in learning about natural organic tinders that can be used WITHOUT charing or special treatment?
I really don't know about others but yes I'm interested. I firmly believe we should all ways learn all we can about anything we can.
 
Interesting tinder discussion. Non-match primitive fire lighting is kind of an area of expertise. Flint + steel, hand drill, bowdrill, compression, etc. Would there be interest here in learning about natural organic tinders that can be used WITHOUT charing or special treatment?
Tom,
Fire away, I'm always willing to learn something new
 
Yes but I need to work or try the bow method. I've never done that either. You know this is a lot of fun. I like the video too. I've got to be the worst at explaining what I mean. In order to be able to use or for me to use the flint and still I need char something. Be it wood or cloth . Now for me to make this I need a fire to start with and I would only have to use the bow method once to fill the tinder box. Now after I am able to start a fire with the bow I'll think of another way to play with fire. After all I'm just a 69 year old kid.
Does that mean you don't carry gunpowder with you RH? The top video shows how to use gunpowder on uncharred tinder to make fire.

'Our party having separated, the important articles of tinder and matches were in the baggage of the division which had proceeded: and as the night was rainy and excessively dark, we were, for some time, under anxiety, lest we should have been deprived of the comfort and security of a fire. Fortunately, my powder-flask was in my saddlebags, and we succeeded in supplying the place of tinder, by moistening a piece of paper, and rubbing it with gunpowder. We placed our touch paper on an old cambric handkerchief, as the most readily combustible article in our stores. On this we scattered gunpowder pretty copiously, and our flint and steel soon enabled us to raise a flame, and collecting dry wood, we made a noble fire.

http://www.mocavo.com/Notes-on-a-Jo...rginia-to-the-Territory-of-Illinois/976642/97
Keith.
 
Does that mean you don't carry gunpowder with you RH? The top video shows how to use gunpowder on uncharred tinder to make fire.

'Our party having separated, the important articles of tinder and matches were in the baggage of the division which had proceeded: and as the night was rainy and excessively dark, we were, for some time, under anxiety, lest we should have been deprived of the comfort and security of a fire. Fortunately, my powder-flask was in my saddlebags, and we succeeded in supplying the place of tinder, by moistening a piece of paper, and rubbing it with gunpowder. We placed our touch paper on an old cambric handkerchief, as the most readily combustible article in our stores. On this we scattered gunpowder pretty copiously, and our flint and steel soon enabled us to raise a flame, and collecting dry wood, we made a noble fire.

http://www.mocavo.com/Notes-on-a-Jo...rginia-to-the-Territory-of-Illinois/976642/97
Keith.
I suspect if I were camping or on a hunting trip I would have powder with me. I can see how powder would be used in starting a fire. If lost or separated from a group a fire can become a close friend. It brings warmth and light and a means to prepare food. I've go to start reading more. Thanks
 
For your firebug entertainment, the following is an article I wrote for Backwoodsman magazine a while back about tinders that will catch a spark as they come straight from the field. No charring, no soaking, nor boiling.

"The use of charcloth in primitive fire starting represents something of a chicken and egg conundrum. In order to make charcloth, one first needs fire… and to make fire most primitive pyro’s use charcloth. So…where do you start and are there alterative ways to get a cook fire ablaze with flint and steel? You bet! Actually, the use of charred cloth is a relatively “modern” development and one that requires the availability of woven cotton fabric.

Cloth being a rather valuable commodity on the frontier, the Missus Long Rifles of yesterday took a rather dim view of “smoldering the family dudsjust to make something that catches a spark. Thankfully, nature provides a number of tinders that will catch and propagate a spark from a flint striker - but they need to be handled a bit differently from the eyebrow singing whoosh of tow and charcloth. ( Note - There are natural tinders that perform after chemical alteration and special treatments, however to maintain the natural flavor of this article we will focus only on those requiring no special treatment other than drying. )

With charcloth, the fiber nest is blown into flame using the heat given off directly by the charcloth. Most natural tinders develop an outer layer of ash as they burn which insulates the fiber nest from the direct heat of the coal and inhibits direct ignition of the fibers – in other words…no flame. Natural tinders perform best when they are combined with a coal extender and natural fibers. ( while jute, hemp, sisal and other commercially available cordage fibers commonly used in primitive fire making are natural, they do not carry a coal well nor do they grow on the North American continent.) Coal extenders cause the tiny spark from the striker to grow and expand producing higher and higher temperature until combustion temperature is reached. Common examples of coal extenders include certain types of fungi including hoof fungus ( Fomes Fomentarious ) True tinder fungus (Inonotus Obliquus) piths from weed stalks such as mullein, the shredded inner bark of trees such as cedar. Plain ordinary punk or rotten wood is one of the most plentiful and effective natural tinders. Punk, sometimes called “touch wood”, will propagate a coal as well as tinder fungus. Once the punk is touch by the glowing ember it will spread until the entire piece becomes a large smoldering coal that’s difficult to extinguish.

Natural tinders


Inonotus obliquus Fomes fomentarius

upload_2019-1-2_19-48-8.png
upload_2019-1-2_19-53-46.png




Mullein Milkweed pod
upload_2019-1-2_19-54-9.png
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OK, so we’ve been out foraging and have our coal extender ready. Now what? We need something to take the place of the charcloth.

If you happen to live in an area within the range of white or yellow birch trees you will soon learn to appreciate the qualities of true tinder fungus ( Inonotus Obliquus ). It is an amazing natural tinder. Simply place a pea sized chunk on top the flint as you would charcloth and strike as you normally would. Putting the tinder on top on the flint is important. Many people make sparks by striking the steel with the flint and driving the sparks downward. This method work well with charcloth and powdered tinder ( something we’ll discuss later on ) however directing the sparks to land on and catch on a tiny piece of fungus can be quite frustrating. To overcome this, we place the fungus on top of the flint and strike the flint with the steel. This causes the sparks to fly up and forward, directly into the tinder fungus. The very short gap traveled by the spark enables it to land sooner and hotter, thereby increasing the chances of it catching in the tinder. Once the spark catches it will spread and rapidly consume the fungus so its important to quickly transfer the spreading coal to a larger piece of fungus or other coal extender.

Spark from steel has ignited Milkweed pod ovum

upload_2019-1-2_19-56-18.png




Note -Tinder fungus will easily catch and propagate a spark and once ignited it is extremely difficult to extinguish. Just light a small piece and try stomping it out in your moccasins – the next camp over yonder will think yur call'n for rain….

Shredded cedar bark works extremely well with tinder fungus. Prior to lighting the fungus, take some strips of dry cedar bark and pound them with a rock or large tree limb. Pull out enough fiber to form a compact ball about an inch or two in diameter. Roll this between the palms briskly to separate the fibers then fluff slightly. Flatten the ball and fold in half to make a pocket. Now light the fungus tinder and place the coal into the pocket you made in the bark. Fold the nest around the ember and with your back to the wind, blow gently on the ember until the fiber nest begins to smoke heavily and starts to make a roaring sound. Be prepared when you hear this sound, as the nest will suddenly burst into flame. Usually three to four long sustained breaths is usually all it takes. Gently feed the flaming fiber nest with savings or dry twigs, gradually building up to larger pieces blowing as necessary to maintain flames.

Hint - To ignite flames, the fiber nest must be sufficiently compacted such that the fibers are in contact and able to propagate the ember. If too loosely packed the ember may die before achieving flames. The nest should still be loose enough however for air to circulate.

If natural fiber is not available in your area, try wood punk. Dry punk from dead hardwood trees carries a coal very well. Three or four pieces of punk, placed in contact with one another, can be blown into flame all by themselves. If there is a slight breeze blowing, this method can be nearly self-igniting. Just expose the coal to the wind and let do the work. You can also place very fine wood shavings, twigs, birch bark or other combustible material on the punk to enhance the development of flames.

Another very effective natural material for catching a spark is milkweed pod – but not the whole outer pod. The part we want is the slender, puffy structure that remains inside the pod after the down has dispersed. These are easy to find in the fall after the pods have opened and their seeds have scattered to the winds. Simply tear off one end to create a ragged edge and place this on the flint as you would charcloth. Once it catches, quickly transfer the spreading coal to your coal extender. You will have to act quickly as this one has a short burn time.

Next comes mullein pith. The trick to getting a spark to catch in this weed-stem pith is to slice it very thinly with a sharp knife. You want to present the finest, most delicate edge possible to the spark. This pith is porous and it helps to orient it such that the spark lands on end grain rather than the side surface of the pith. Also, you want a spark that clings and lingers just a bit on the edge of your flint. This allows for longer contact time with the mullein pith. When using more challenging tinders it is helpful to change our way of thinking from that of “catching a flying spark” to transferring the heat from a hot glowing shred of metal to the tinder by direct contact. When the spark catches, again use the tiny glowing coal to ignite a larger coal extender.

Lastly, ordinary wood punk or touchwood ( especially hard maple ) provides an extremely useful natural tinder. Punk performs very well with flint and steel and its abundance makes it worth the effort required in learning to using it successfully. Not only will it catch a spark but several chunks placed in direct contact with one another can be blown into flame without need for shredded bark or fiber. This can be extremely important to know in an area where suitable fiber is not available. Punk exists everywhere that trees grow and even in a rainstorm it is usually possible to obtain suitable punk from the interior of a standing dead hardwood tree such as maple. Look for a tree having a hole in its trunk from a broken limb.

If the punk is firm enough you can follow the basic guidelines above, placing the punk on top of the flint. However small pieces of punk tend to fragment easily when manipulated and pressed against the flint. As an alternate approach, you can rub the punk between the palms, grinding it up into a fine powder. Do this over a large leaf so you can catch and later move the dust pile created. When using a tinder pile you reverse the set up and strike the steel with a downward blow from the flint driving the sparks down into the dust pile. Punk can be stubborn to catch and several strikes may be needed. Once a spark has caught, fan it gently with your hand to expand the coal. Blowing on it too hard may scatter the dust pile… and your coal. When the coal is burning well, scoop under it with the tip of a knife to lift it out of the dust pile and transfer it in your fiber bundle or punk.

Note: Save the remaining punk dust! A small metal tin makes a great place to store your remaining punk dust. And, if you allow do not remove all of the coal but allow it to propagate a bit in the dust, the charred dust will catch a spark much easier next time. Simply place the lid on the tin when its time to extinguish the smoldering punk.

The above tinders also perform extremely well in the fire piston, a primitive fire starting device that cause ignition by the compression of air and rumored to have been carried by the Lewis and Clark's Corp of Discovery. ( See Muzzleblasts, June 2008 )
 
Always light the fire at camp with flint and steel...some char cloth and Birchbark....the Nephews 12-17 years old have a blast with it.
 
we often cheated


When survival is for real, there is no such thing as "cheating". In my hunting days I usually preferred to go alone. This meant hiking miles into the Ozark forest. I carried a standard flint and steel set with char cloth I made from monks cloth. If I wanted a fire, that is what I would use to get it going. If I was in danger of hypothermia or other unfavorable exposure to the elements and needed a fire I would use one of a couple Bic lighters I also carried in my pockets. Suffering and dying a lonely death in the woods might be real authentic but I ain't that hc/pc.
 
When survival is for real, there is no such thing as "cheating". In my hunting days I usually preferred to go alone. This meant hiking miles into the Ozark forest. I carried a standard flint and steel set with char cloth I made from monks cloth. If I wanted a fire, that is what I would use to get it going. If I was in danger of hypothermia or other unfavorable exposure to the elements and needed a fire I would use one of a couple Bic lighters I also carried in my pockets. Suffering and dying a lonely death in the woods might be real authentic but I ain't that hc/pc.
There is a difference between being prepared, unprepared and just plain stupid. I was taken to task on this site for carrying a water filter, basic first aid kit and cellphone (though useless due to lack of cell signal in many wilderness areas) for health/safety reasons. Some tried to make me out as a hypocrite because I was prepared (Many years as a Wilderness Survival and Wilderness First Aid Instructor), which I thought was sadly amusing. I'd bet the bank the tune would be very different if they were in need of assistance...

That said, making a fire under adverse conditions is something I have done many times and can do successfully with flint, steel, charred punkwood and tinder I carry with me. A few pieces of pitchwood and some candle stubs make the job of maintaining a flame easier.
 
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There is a difference between being prepared, unprepared and just plain stupid. I was taken to task on this site for carrying a water filter, basic first aid kit and cellphone (though useless due to lack of cell signal in many wilderness areas) for health/safety reasons. Some tried to make me out as a hypocrite because I was prepared (Many years as a Wilderness Survival and Wilderness First Aid Instructor), which I thought was sadly amusing. I'd bet the bank the tune would be very different if they were in need of assistance...

That said, making a fire under adverse conditions is something I have done many times and can do successfully with flint, steel, charred punkwood and tinder I carry with me. A few pieces of pitchwood and some candle stubs make the job of maintaining a flame easier.
I for one would never say that you were anything but enjoying life as you see fit. Each of us do things that others may not and all that makes us is just a little different. I've hunted and fished as much of my life as I could . Others have played golf, went on long walks (across the mountain) . What it amounts to it's your life, and as long as it doesn't hurt others do what you wish. I think it's smart that when you go out into nature that your prepared for most anything. I can also say that if I'm out there and in need I hope I run into you.
 
I for one would never say that you were anything but enjoying life as you see fit. Each of us do things that others may not and all that makes us is just a little different. I've hunted and fished as much of my life as I could . Others have played golf, went on long walks (across the mountain) . What it amounts to it's your life, and as long as it doesn't hurt others do what you wish. I think it's smart that when you go out into nature that your prepared for most anything. I can also say that if I'm out there and in need I hope I run into you.
I think you may have misunderstood - I was in no way criticizing anyone else if they had a lighter in their pocket. To the contrary, since we all have different skill levels in the out-of-doors...

If on a primitive scout, my goals are a little different and I will do things in a period manner - or better yet, I've not needed to resort to modern methods because of all the practice I've had with modern methods. Fire-building is a LEARNED art that isn't being taught that often today.
 
Great thread.....gonnah Chaar me up some punk wood now !
Find punk that is still holding together and somewhat fibrous/spongy - the punk that falls apart into powder is not what you want. I've also had luck charring the shelf fungus one finds on trees (Not the Tinder fungus variety, as it doesn't seem to grow around here). We spent most of an afternoon on a Scout charring a variety of materials and testing their ability to catch a spark - try several different materials and find what works best in your area. If it is damp/wet, I'd suggest you allow it to dry well dry before charring. I carry a larger tin of charred punk/fungus and shake out a portion into the lid before striking sparks. Once I have caught a spark, I nestle in a few more pieces so I get a nice little collection of coals that are placed into my nest. Make certain there are NO live coals in the rest before you return the unused char to the tin.
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Don't be deceived by the light color (due to the flash) - the char is black. A piece of the charred fungus is at the lower left and charred punkwood at the bottom right.
 
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