Difference in Cimarron Colt Walker vs "regular" Uberti Walker?

[Sound Tribe]

I know that Uberti manufactures the Walker for Cimarron anyways, but I am wondering are the normal models from Cimarron any different than from Ubertis?

I am asking mostly as I can find Cimarron guns which seems to be the exact same, for a bit less $ than the Uberti versions

From my experience and if I recall right Cimarron models are marked ontop of the barrel while Uberti marks under the barrel?

Thanks

 

[sethwyo]

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[Sound Tribe]

So I will give you some information that I do have,

When a company like cimmeron has a company like uberti make a product for them they tell uberti how much they're willing to pay and uberti presents them with some and says this is what we can give you for that price,

The less the company like cimarron offers,
The lesser the quality product that uberti throws together for them.

Uberti has very high quality fitting and finishing on their product, but when they make some for another company that doesn't pay too much, the finish isn't that good like the blueing isn't that great , the quality of some of the parts is not too good and the fitting generally is very good.

They don't pay the gunsmiths as much money to spend as much time working on them when they are put together.

That is not to say that cimarron does not have good quality stuff made for them by uberti, I own a number of cimarrons and they're very nice.

But no, the items that uberti makes for other companies generally do not have the same quality as the ones they put their own name on , because of the price.

But of course there's people who will say they just look a little bit different

Well that info is very interesting and sort of sucks but it is good to know where the $ difference goes. Appreciate it.

But I mainly was just wanting to know if they always put their stamp on the top of the barrel or is it hidden under the barrel like on normal Ubertis?
Or does it differ by gun?

Thanks

 

[Smokerr]

I can say the Uberti Walker is well made, good finish (see note) and it works like a dream (sans the short arbor and that is easily fixed)

What I doubt is there is any difference in parts or the finishing. It cost more to set it up than you get in return and in fact, more.

I worked on Generators (Diesel mostly, backup power). At least one mfg that packaged their own Generators with their own engines would put the same engine on a range of Gen Sets (call it 60 KW to 120) . Same HP. Max draw was at 120 KW, but same HP down to 60 KW. Why? Cost. Now a engine can have adjusted HP using a variety of methods, but you then have a non standard sub group of engines for each KW need and parts have to be stocked, made etc.

So , they make up in volume and use just a single engine for a range like that.

Mfg now is the same. It cost more to do less, so why would you do it? Then you give someone a lower price?

Now, I have no idea how much finishing goes into the parts fits on those guns. Maybe someone has bought a parts kit for one and can tell you as those would have no custom fitting. It may have been true when labor was cheaper, but now? I truly doubt it.

Maybe finish can be less by not processing the gun as far into the Blue process but that would be about it.

Finish Note: As I only have the one Uberti I can't say what the goal of the finish is. It may be to duplicate the original appearance wise. So the Walker is not like a S&W (more so in days gone by) that had a nice deep finish. Send one in for a restore and it gets an even better finish (done it). But that is a separate operation and it costs.
So, I don't rate the Walker as fine a finish as at least the old S&W was. But its a decent finish and it seems that its trying to duplicate an original appearance.

 

[sethwyo]

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[Sound Tribe]

I wouldn't say it sucks, like I said cimarron has very nice guns as they are built by uberti.
Go to some gun shows where you can handle used guns instead of waiting to get a new one to see what they're like,
Get yourself some you birdies and some cimarron's made by uberti and see what you think for yourself.

Don't know if they always stamp their name on top of the barrel , but on the few i owned they are stamped on top of the barrel.

Had a cimarron made by uberti, reproduction of a colt peacemaker, the site slot in the top of the frame was not cut true. For me this is the result of what happens when the cost is cut , the gunsmiths have to turn out more guns every hour and they aren't / can't pay as good of attention if they're taking more time on each piece.

I am confused as to why I would need to go to gun shows and/or buy more to compare.

The point of this thread was to confirm if Cimarron is always stamping ontop the barrel vs the bottom like Uberti. Any other info is just a plus, but I do appreciate it.

Thanks for answering about the few you own, and for only a 40$ difference it would suck to see a drop in quality as you say, but fine in use I am happy to own both types.

 

[kh54]

I have four Cimarrons, two Colt percussion revolvers and two Colt cartridge revolvers. All have Cimarron’s name on the top of the barrel. At least on the percussion revolvers (1st model Dragoon and 1851 Navy) Cimarron tried to mimic the old Colt engraving; it’s subtle and not too distracting. However, the two cartridge revolvers are deeply engraved, “Cimarron F.A. Co., Fredericksburg, Texas. Made in Italy.” (Richards-Mason 1860 conversion) and “Cimarron F.A. Co., Fredericksburg, Texas. A. Uberti Italy” (1872 open top). I don’t care for that engraving at all.

 

[Sound Tribe]

I have four Cimarrons, two Colt percussion revolvers and two Colt cartridge revolvers. All have Cimarron’s name on the top of the barrel. At least on the percussion revolvers (1st model Dragoon and 1851 Navy) Cimarron tried to mimic the old Colt engraving; it’s subtle and not too distracting. However, the two cartridge revolvers are deeply engraved, “Cimarron F.A. Co., Fredericksburg, Texas. Made in Italy.” (Richards-Mason 1860 conversion) and “Cimarron F.A. Co., Fredericksburg, Texas. A. Uberti Italy” (1872 open top). I don’t care for that engraving at all.

Thanks, that's what I was trying to figure out. See I already own a Cimarron unmentionable and wasn't sure if I could say that... and was wondering if the Walker had the same style markings as the other percussion Cimarrons.

Maybe I worded my initial question wrong!

Appreciate the info

 

[kh54]

Thanks, that's what I was trying to figure out. See I already own a Cimarron unmentionable and wasn't sure if I could even say that... and was wondering if the Walker (or other Cimarrons) all had the same style markings.

Maybe I worded my initial question wrong!

Appreciate the info

It’s a bit late now but I can post pics tomorrow.

 

[Poguetx]

I'd always heard Cimarron does a tune up job on them.

 

[jps2486]

I own an older unfired Uberti Walker and was immediately impressed with the fit and finish of it. I also recently purchased a 1851 Navy which came from Taylors. The Taylors gun was packaged better and I'm sure it must have went through their own quality checks before shipment. However, do you think Uberti would be dumb enough to ship any of their products with sub-par quality? That would tarnish their name for sure. If there is a difference, it must be very insignificant. I suspect that 3rd parties like Cimarron and Taylor contracts for certain quantities of product and the time of the year when the Euro/Dollar exchange rates are more attractive.

 

[azmntman]

NOT ANY KIND OF EXPERT but I always thought the Cimarrons were, as per above, somewhat better out the door? I bought a NIB from a member and it is pretty much perfect. Have not shot it yet. As the opening statement implied I could be backwards but thought Cimarron was a step up?

 

[CaptainVane]

Well as AZ said.
My 1851 .36 Navy bought last April. …
1. On top of barrel it says “Cimarron, Frederick Texas” in the same manner as the Original Colts.
2. Unlike every other Uberti i hear about on here, it does not have a short arbor.
3. It was no more expensive than any other Uberti i see advertised.
4. I have shot ~ 1500 balls thru it since last year with zero issues.
YMMV.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I don't know if this will help, but I have a standard Uberti 1st Model Dragoon, made in 2016, that has the manufacturer's markings concealed under the loading lever, on the underside of the barrel. There are some proofmarks on the flat on the right side of the barrel assembly, and the date code on the right side of the frame, but these are inconspicuous.

My only Cimarron is a US Cavalry Model P with their "original finish" (looks like an antique). It has markings on top of the barrel that mimic the lettering of the old Colts, except it says Cimarron.

NOT ANY KIND OF EXPERT but I always thought the Cimarrons were, as per above, somewhat better out the door? I bought a NIB from a member and it is pretty much perfect. Have not shot it yet. As the opening statement implied I could be backwards but thought Cimarron was a step up?

That was my understanding, too. Cimarron also supports small dealers... you don't have to go through a distributor/middleman. I got my Model P just a few weeks ago. The local dealer ordered it directly from Cimarron and had it in two days. My total cost was about $100 less than Cimarron's MSRP... I saved money and the local dealer (a friend of mine) made money. Everybody wins. I know you don't need to go through a dealer to get a percussion revolver from Cimarron, but you might save money if you do. I called them before ordering my Model P, to ensure they were in stock, and the guy at Cimarron advised me to do it that way.

Notchy Bob

 

[Sound Tribe]

I was going to add in my original post that I knew Cimarron had amazing customer service when it came to a gun that was imported by them but wasn't trying to detract from my initial question about the markings.

Which by the way, I did get in touch with Cimarron over and they confirmed that all of their guns do have a stamp ONTOP of the barrel rather than under like regular Uberti but it is done just like @CaptainVane said which is in the style of the original Colts.

I was more curious if they said "Made in Italy" after the Fredricksburg, TX part or not, but that might vary due to each gun.

And yeah like everyone else is saying I assumed a Cimarron was somewhat a "customized" and equal or better version of a normal Uberti, I had never heard of them being made with lower quality until now.

 

[Ed C.]

I'd always heard Cimarron does a tune up job on them.

Just a note on tuning. I paid an extra $150 to get a tuned Cimarron Colt Peacemaker-Evil Roy model. Wonderful smooth action but in short order the cylinder would not advance fully due a weakened coil hand spring and started getting 15-30% light strikes due to a very light mainspring. Replaced both of the those. Action is a little stiffer but always goes bang now. And I love that gun. By getting that model I avoided the transfer bar system and have the original Colt 4 click hammer. Sorry for bringing in an unmentionable. Point being, even those that are experts can tune a gun to the point of being unreliable.

 

[Sound Tribe]

It’s a bit late now but I can post pics tomorrow.

Do ALL of your percussion guns say "Made in Italy" right after Texas? or only some?

It seems what I've heard and seen they don't mention Italy, besides from your post, so I just want to be sure if it's different gun models or maybe different years/times they've changed the stamp, etc.

I'd appreciate any info

I found a picture of @Spaxspore post his Lonesome Dove Walker in another thread where it only has the marking like Colt's original "Address Cimarron Fredericksburg Texas" and nothing mentioned about Italy, so I just want to be 100% sure. I asked Cimarron as a followup if any mention Italy or not, waiting on that reply.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/lonesome-dove-walker.175153/

 

[CaptainVane]

Do ALL of your percussion guns "Made in Italy" right after Texas? or only some?

It seems what I've heard and seen don't mention Italy, besides from your post, so I just want to be sure if it's different gun models or maybe different years/times they've changed the stamp, etc.

I'd appreciate any info!

I found a picture of @Spaxspore post his Lonesome Dove Walker in another thread where it only has the marking like Colt's original "Address Cimarron Fredericksburg Texas" and nothing mentioned about Italy, I just want to be 100% sure. I asked Cimarron as a followup if any mention Italy or not, waiting on that reply.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/lonesome-dove-walker.175153/

View attachment 307504

That picture is exactly same as mine. I believe it has something about italy and black powder only under the rammer on bottom but i aint home to look.
Also, your Walker read from the right side. My 51 Navy read left side from barrel to receiver. Cimarron does a real good job of emulating the original Colt down to the direction of the engraving.
I got mine from M&MOutfitters out of Kansas, EXCELLENT price and service.
Hope that helps.

 

[Sound Tribe]

That picture is exactly same as mine. I believe it has something about italy and black powder only under the rammer on bottom but i aint home to look.
Also, your Walker read from the right side. My 51 Navy read left side from barrel to receiver. Cimarron does a real good job of emulating the original Colt down to the direction of the engraving.
I got mine from M&MOutfitters out of Kansas, EXCELLENT price and service.
Hope that helps.

Ohhh that would make perfect sense and be a good way to set it up. Still reminiscent of the original Colt style, but with a mix of Uberti's hidden proofmarks.

The pictured gun probably has the same setup. Thanks for clarifying!!

And yeah M&M Outfitters is great, that's actually who I was dealing with too

 

[CaptainVane]

Ohhh that would make perfect sense and be a good way to set it up. Still reminiscent of the original Colt style, but with a mix of Uberti's hidden proofmarks.

He probably has the same setup. Thanks for clarifying!!

Proofmarks are actually on the right side of frame under the cylinder but splitting hairs.
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