Did some patterning today.

[Skychief]

Having ran out of #6 shot, I monkeyed with #7 1/2 and #4 shot today.

I used my 12 gauge New Englander.

I was less than impressed with the 4-shot and focused on finding a good turkey load with the 7 1/2's.

The outcome showed that the best (densest) pattern at 20 yards was with a load chain that the gun doesn't use with it's usual turkey load of 6's.

80 grains of 2f Goex
4 overshot cards
1 pulverized (shredded to a pulp) cushion wad
1 overshot card
1 5/8 ounces of #7 1/2 shot
1 overshot card

This load placed an average of 90 pellets (with a high of 100) on an 8 1/2" X 11" piece of paper.

It also averaged 13 pellet strikes on a hand drawn turkey head upon the paper.

I have never killed a turkey with #7 1/2 shot (and never tried). I think this load will get it done at twenty yards or closer.

Do you all think it will have the "oomph" to cleanly take a tom at that range?

Many thanks, Skychief. :hatsoff:

 

[dbutch]

one box of 12 ga. 1 oz. trap loads # 6 shot 6.50.......
why reinvent the wheel ?
You have done well with it in the past.
Looking forward to the smiling pic's.

 

[roundball]

Do you all think it will have the "oomph" to cleanly take a tom at that range?

We can't answer that...suggest you make another quick trip to the range and shoot that load at the bottom of stiff strong metal soup or tuna cans as a reasonable way of testing energy / penetration.
I start at 20, then 25, 30, etc, until they no longer penetrate...then back up 2-3yds to find the max range.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've never tried #7-1/2. NY allows from as small as #8 to as large as #2 for turkey, and our DEC site offers this advice: "Smaller shot, no. 4, 5, and 6, work better than larger shot, due to denser shot patterns."

80 gr FFg in a 12 bore is enough to get the job done - especially at 20 yards.

 

[Skychief]

one box of 12 ga. 1 oz. trap loads # 6 shot 6.50.......
why reinvent the wheel ?
You have done well with it in the past.
Looking forward to the smiling pic's.

Well Dan, you have a good point. :hmm:

I need to run a few counties over to get magnum 6 shot and may do that yet.

I always had the notion that 7 1/2's made sense out to twenty yards or so, but boy, they sure look tiny when ya load them! :haha:

Your advice is under consideration sir. Thanks.

Skychief. :hatsoff:

 

[Skychief]

Do you all think it will have the "oomph" to cleanly take a tom at that range?

We can't answer that...suggest you make another quick trip to the range and shoot that load at the bottom of stiff strong metal soup or tuna cans as a reasonable way of testing energy / penetration.
I start at 20, then 25, 30, etc, until they no longer penetrate...then back up 2-3yds to find the max range.

Roundball, did you read my post very close? I am hunting turkey. Not soup. Not tuna.

Skychief. :wink:

 

[Skychief]

80 gr FFg in a 12 bore is enough to get the job done - especially at 20 yards.

Thanks Stump'. I may try them, but may resort to not rebuilding the wheel. If I go with the 7 1/2's, it will be in the spirit of experimentation!

We frontloaders like to tinker, don't we?

Skychief. :thumbsup:

 

[Skychief]

Last night, I came across some older turkey targets that I had shot.

Some were with 80 grains 2f with 1 1/4 ounce of #7 1/2 shot. They looked good and I intend to try this load again. My thought is, the lesser shotload will have more zip (and penetration). So, I may go with this load if it is not much thinner than the bigger payload.

Turkeys beware, Skychief. :haha:

 

[Billnpatti]

If you will look up topic #265390 on this forum, you will find info on making shot cups. These shot cups filled with something like #4 shot with about 80 grains of ffG powder is an excellent turkey load.

 

[Bosteldr]

I have a New Englander also. I have tried it for turkey hunting but so far they have kept out of range 40 to 50 yds. I was never happy with the power of the 7 1/2 beyond 20 to 25 yds. I use 5 as primary load. Lot of penetrating power to 30 yds and maybe 35 if you have a choke for your shot gun. Turkeys are big bird you need shot that will penatrate and break the neck. Go with a larger shot size.

 

[roundball]

I was never happy with the power of the 7 1/2 beyond 20 to 25 yds.

Yes, they fill in a pattern well on paper, and are a good choice for a cylinder bore to about 23-24yds...but for me they lack the weight for reliable penetration starting around 25yds.

In this photo of tuna cans at 25yds, the right most can is with 7.5's.
Right above the "3" in 3F is a dent instead of a hole;
And 1/2" towards 11 o'clock off the top of the #6 is another dent.
At 24yds they all punch through, at 26yds and beyond there are more and more dents instead of holes.
If you bump the powder charge to try and compensate, the pattern starts to open / thin out.
(For me, hard magnum #6s are far better for penetration at greater distance, ie: 40yds in my Jug Choked .20ga).

 

[larry wv]

For what it's worth I think 7 1/2 is to small for Turkey. Larry

 

[roundball]

As a related piece of info...a couple years ago I had sold my Hawken with its .62cal GM Hug Choked barrel tpowards the cost of other long guns, and in anticipation of my .62cal smoothbore Virginia being here in plenty of time for 2010 spring turkey.
Well as you've probably already guessed, it didn't make it in time and I had to make do with a T/C Hawken Flintlock that had a .62cal GM barrel Jug Choked Imp.Cyl.

I got some nickle plated #7s to try and bump up the pattern some without going all the way to 7.5s and did kill a Tom at 22yds with the #7s.
It put him down but did not kill him outright and I had to step on his neck to end it.

 

[Skychief]

:thumbsup:

 

[USMA65]

I read on another board, that for penetration on the neck/head of a turkey, that shot needs to retain 200 ft/lbs of energy. 7 1/2 is rated below number at 20 yards. Experiment on cans, not game.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

I believe 2.5ft lbs of energy is needed to penetrate a turkeys head, spine, neck, etc! According to the the experts a #6 lead pellet fired at 1200fps falls a little short of that, therefore we should favor #5 as a happy medium of energy/pellet count! I had a New Englander that i shot a combo load of 7 1/2 x 4 shot that did well but have since sold that gun! I think the penetration of a tuna/soup can test at the range where the pattern start to dissapate is the proper test, be it 20, 25, 30yds!!!

 

[roundball]

Personally, I didn't like the loss of pellet count with #5s, and prefer hard 6s. This test can is a .20ga load of hard #6s, and it also dropped a Tom where he stood at 40yds...so I'm kind of a strong supporter of hard #6s for turkey given the balance of pattern density and killing power I've experienced.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

I do like the pattern density with #6 as well :hatsoff: Thats just another modern mathematical figure debunked by a 200yr old weapon :bow:

 

[fusil de chase]

Maybe try harder with the #4 shot. I never killed a turkey but does not seem like the best idea to drift em with dust.

 

[roundball]

Maybe try harder with the #4 shot. I never killed a turkey but does not seem like the best idea to drift em with dust.

Well, remember that turkeys have a huge amount of feathers double folded along their sides and unless you use a PRB, or some of the buckshot or 'T' shot size pellets to attempt a 'body shot' it's tough to get through all that into & across the internal vitals.
As a result, its been pretty well established the best money shot on a turkey is the head & neck vitals and that takes a substantial pellet count to ensure good hits shot after shot.

Need to get a pellet or two to break into the small skull the size of a walnut or through the neck vertebrae the size of a standard wooden #2 pencil...all the rest of what appears to be a good size neck and head is non-vital feathers and jelly.
And while #4s would definitely get penetration of the skull / neck vertebrae...the pellet count is so small that the pattern is too thin to reliably get hits on those tiny vitals at any real distance to speak of.

At least that's the conclusion I've ended up with from my experiences so far...others mileage may vary of course.